Strange Flirc behaviour

General discussion relating to the O2 Joggler, from the default O2 setup, to alternative operating systems and applications.
Imagewerx
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by Imagewerx »

pete wrote:
All I need and want is a music player that plays music,it doesn't have to do anything else.
Yup the SB player just boots into Squeezeplayer; nothing else. You don't know it has a meaty OS.
fully automatic wake up/go to sleep with the ignition key just like a 'proper' car head unit does every time I put the ignition key in or take it out.Can this be done using the keyboard method (or some sort of keyboard emulator) via a USB input?
No.

You can put it to sleep; but it will not ever wake with whatever you do with any externally connected USB input device.

There is no battery for the CMOS. You can only do a system shutdown, power it off and power it on. So you can have a structured shutdown and a power reboot on them. The LIRC IR can tell them to shut down. It just will not wake the Joggler. Try it yourself. Plug the Joggler into a wall socket and suspend it. Tell me if you can wake it up.

This is where you can utilize an automotive standard with USB power supply.

DCDC-USB, Intelligent buck-boost DC-DC converter with USB interface.

I was able to wake up the Openframe 7 (with the battery) once a while ago. I couldn't replicate the suspend wakeup though afterwards.

Image

Over the years have purchased a few things from Mini-Box dot com.

Old CarPC boxes where these. They are a bit snug and large. They look nice though (but I never look at them anyways). They are sitting around the house some place. The have 1.2Ghz VIA Epia motherboards.

Image

Currently have the two automobiles set up with these cases - M350's - much smaller and easier to set up. Each have a pico PSU with a timed shutdown configuration.

Image

I can wake up the XBMC boxes with the IR remotes.

The Joggler was meant to be always connected to the Internet, much like many devices today that do not have an off button.

Here I have some 20+ Jogglers throughout the house. They typically are in screen saver mode or the screen goes off. They are scheduled to go off from the mothership every night at a certain time. They run with less power when the screen is off.

On the other hand here also utilize low power Aopen Digital Engines for touch screens. These go to sleep; suspend every night. I can wake them by touching the the screens. These are not tablets though and the screens are from 7" to 19" in the wall.

Have a look here at this project done for the Joggler.

http://www.mp3car.com/show-off-your-pro ... x-5-a.html
My Squeezebox Touch used to be able to be put to sleep using the power button on the steering wheel controls (of course it only paused it and switched the screen off) and the stock infra-red remote control functions,and could then be woken up directly into playing the last song just by hitting the play button.As you have to manually initiate full shut down from the touch screen,but then it boots up automatically when you apply power to it,can the shut down not be initiated by a few lines of code via USB and then let it power up normally? For some strange reason the configuration for the Flirc and Joggler won't allow the power button to work.
As I said above,I'm trying to keep this all as simple as possible,hence resisting the temptation right from the start to just jump right in with a full car PC set up.The only thing that might be of any use to me is the Joycon EX USB Remote.My steering wheel controls don't use resistive switching as they are,but could easily enough be converted to work this way if needed.But it seems that they are no longer made,so I'd have to wait for one to come up second hand I guess?
Imagewerx
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by Imagewerx »

castalla wrote:
Imagewerx wrote:
I haven't had the chance to try this yet.Don't forget though that the difference exists between two identical Jogglers,both with the same external part number and both with the same internal mother board part number.
Yes - bizarre. But 1.09 is worth a try.
Ok,it's all back in the car now so will give it a try when I next get a chance.
Imagewerx
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by Imagewerx »

hawsey wrote:The main issue here I am sure is the powering off and on of the operating system constantly : I tried running Xbmc OS and another time Linux Mint booting straight in to xbmc off an external Hdd in my van : but had similar issues to yourself and "rested the project for a while " out of frustration.
I have even thought of trying to rig up some sort of battery that will charge when the van is moving and power the Joggler when not so it stays on constantly.
The problem here is the high standby current. I haven't measured the Joggler yet,but the Squeezebox was still 0.5 Amps even when put to sleep,so any conceivable backup battery would only last about a day or so if not recharged every day.Dedicated car head units are designed for this and draw somewhere in the region of 10 milliamps on standby.During the day it's fine to leave it in standby with the screen switched off,even when parked up for hours at a time,but it'd always fully powered down when it's fully put away for the night.
Imagewerx
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by Imagewerx »

pete wrote:You can install a tank battery circuit.

Image

And add a second battery to your automobile.

I did this with my first car PC's.

Then you would add a USB controlled circuit for a nice shutdown. (previously mentioned).
I need to measure the Joggler's standby current,but I reckon it'll be too much for one of those little batteries which aren't designed for any real current draw.
User avatar
pete
Posts: 2961
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:33 am
Location: Time Traveler

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by pete »

Yup; here I installed some 12mAH battery; which was too big.

I would not pursue this any further. Read some on MP3Car dot com about a similar adventure.

I have an Openpeak 2 board in front of me. It has a battery and a mini PCIE slot. Buy one of these and take it apart. You can add an SD for booting if you want or even an little SSD drive in the mini pcie slot. This device would suit your purpose better if you don't want to purchase a CarPC.

Its a shame though considering the work you have done to your automobile.
- Pete
O2 Jogglers running EFI Ubuntu / Squeezeplayer
OpenPeak Voip Telephony / Zigbee tabletops hardware modded with Seabios / RTC / Ethernet ROM edits / SSD drives running XPe for automation screens

Auto mater
User avatar
hawsey
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 11:23 pm
Location: Northumberland

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by hawsey »

Just had a look at your Flickr, very nice set up you have there, love Stonehenge ones too :-) .
Hope you get there on this set up .
So is the flirc thingy your main issue you have at the moment or others?
Could the device itself be dodgy? the flirc that is .
My issues were os stability and failure to recognise my music files, that being said when it worked it looked great.
What is your car audio set up? I.e what are u connecting the optical output I noticed up to
Happy Joggling
Imagewerx
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by Imagewerx »

pete wrote:Yup; here I installed some 12mAH battery; which was too big.

I would not pursue this any further. Read some on MP3Car dot com about a similar adventure.

I have an Openpeak 2 board in front of me. It has a battery and a mini PCIE slot. Buy one of these and take it apart. You can add an SD for booting if you want or even an little SSD drive in the mini pcie slot. This device would suit your purpose better if you don't want to purchase a CarPC.

Its a shame though considering the work you have done to your automobile.
A good idea but I still like the thought of an almost entirely self contained unit with it's reasonably good touchscreen that fits almost perfectly into a double DIN aperture.

edit......just seen that the JoyCon thingies are still on sale in South Korea......http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CarPC-JoyCon- ... 3385b2b0b2
Last edited by Imagewerx on Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Imagewerx
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by Imagewerx »

hawsey wrote:Just had a look at your Flickr, very nice set up you have there, love Stonehenge ones too :-) .
Hope you get there on this set up .
So is the flirc thingy your main issue you have at the moment or others?
Could the device itself be dodgy? the flirc that is .
My issues were os stability and failure to recognise my music files, that being said when it worked it looked great.
What is your car audio set up? I.e what are u connecting the optical output I noticed up to
Thank you and Stonehenge was kinda cool but certainly NOT imposing and awe inspiring as I was expecting,and because of the repairs to it last century certainly didn't feel or even look more than a few decades old.

At the moment the only real issue is the lack of working steering wheel controls,but if there's another more reliable way to do it that gives me other programmable options I'd look at those as well.It still occasionally doesn't pick up all the details about what's being played in some folders (displays file path instead),but actually plays them just fine.

Here's how it's all connected.........

Joggler..........Toslink cable.......Mini DSP nano digi (DSP crossover and equaliser)........3 X outboard Fiio Taishan DACs.........1 X Kicker Ix500.4 amp driving Image Dynamics horn loaded compression drivers under the dashboard........1 X Kicker Ix500.4 amp driving 2 X Pioneer 8 inch midbass in the front doors........1 X Kicker Ix1000.1 driving a JBL GT-1514D sub woofer.

If you follow my Flickr back far enough,there's more photos of the earlier parts of the install.Also here's my build thread......http://uk-mkivs.net/topic/100705-are-we ... ?p=1922749
User avatar
pete
Posts: 2961
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:33 am
Location: Time Traveler

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by pete »

Went looking on Ebay for a DIN mounted HU with some stuff on it and found one for around $100 USD. Just a couple of years ago these were $300 USD.

I noticed a bunch of CE or Android based HU's. I have modded tablets and put CE or LInux on them and they run fine.
DIN.jpg
The Joggler does look nicer though.
- Pete
O2 Jogglers running EFI Ubuntu / Squeezeplayer
OpenPeak Voip Telephony / Zigbee tabletops hardware modded with Seabios / RTC / Ethernet ROM edits / SSD drives running XPe for automation screens

Auto mater
Imagewerx
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by Imagewerx »

pete wrote:Went looking on Ebay for a DIN mounted HU with some stuff on it and found one for around $100 USD. Just a couple of years ago these were $300 USD.

I noticed a bunch of CE or Android based HU's. I have modded tablets and put CE or LInux on them and they run fine.
DIN.jpg
The Joggler does look nicer though.
No optical out though,the point of the Joggler amongst other things is it's the cheapest possible way to get an optical output.Cheapest optical output car headunit £1000 or more for a Pioneer ODR or Alpine F#1 Status,my current Joggler just £37 for the same quality.
Imagewerx
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by Imagewerx »

Ok,lets look at this another way.The Joggler when in the car is powered by a home made 5 volt regulated power supply.It is rated at 5 Amps continuous,and as the Joggler only draws just over 1 Amp when working,this should be more than adequate.But.......it's difficult to get to the board the regulator is mounted on when it's all fitted into the car,and it does get VERY hot quite quickly when in use,but as I can't get to the part of the board where the power wires come off it to measure the voltage,I'm guessing the heat could mean it's dropping the voltage a bit when it gets too hot to touch (yes I know I could strip back part of the insulation on the wires to the power plug to do this).I'm only guessing again that this could mean slightly less voltage by the time it gets all the way to the USB socket,which with time might be what's making the Flirc shut down.
So I'm trying this.A new external USB socket powered directly from the power wires onto the main board of the Joggler,so definitely no voltage drop by the time it's powered all those things plugged into the hub.Also as shown I'm using one of the many other USB ports built into these units......

ImageUSB1 by Imagewerx R32

It seems to boot up a bit quicker now from fully powered down,the Flirc works perfectly while sitting on the bench but it's yet to be tried in the car.If it does work I'll do a way with the bodge and solder the wires from the hub directly onto the board.
Imagewerx
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by Imagewerx »

Ok,lets look at this another way.The Joggler when in the car is powered by a home made 5 volt regulated power supply.It is rated at 5 Amps continuous,and as the Joggler only draws just over 1 Amp when working,this should be more than adequate.But.......it's difficult to get to the board the regulator is mounted on when it's all fitted into the car,and it does get VERY hot quite quickly when in use,but as I can't get to the part of the board where the power wires come off it to measure the voltage,I'm guessing the heat could mean it's dropping the voltage a bit when it gets too hot to touch (yes I know I could strip back part of the insulation on the wires to the power plug to do this).I'm only guessing again that this could mean slightly less voltage by the time it gets all the way to the USB socket,which with time might be what's making the Flirc shut down.
So I'm trying this.A new external USB socket powered directly from the power wires onto the main board of the Joggler,so definitely no voltage drop by the time it's powered all those things plugged into the hub.Also as shown I'm using one of the many other USB ports built into these units......

ImageUSB1 by Imagewerx R32

It seems to boot up a bit quicker now from fully powered down,the Flirc works perfectly while sitting on the bench but it's yet to be tried in the car.If it does work I'll do a way with the bodge and solder the wires from the hub directly onto the board.
User avatar
pete
Posts: 2961
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:33 am
Location: Time Traveler

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by pete »

So I'm trying this.A new external USB socket powered directly from the power wires onto the main board of the Joggler,so definitely no voltage drop by the time it's powered all those things plugged into the hub.Also as shown I'm using one of the many other USB ports built into these units......
Do you have a spare joggler in case this one burns up?
- Pete
O2 Jogglers running EFI Ubuntu / Squeezeplayer
OpenPeak Voip Telephony / Zigbee tabletops hardware modded with Seabios / RTC / Ethernet ROM edits / SSD drives running XPe for automation screens

Auto mater
Imagewerx
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by Imagewerx »

pete wrote:
So I'm trying this.A new external USB socket powered directly from the power wires onto the main board of the Joggler,so definitely no voltage drop by the time it's powered all those things plugged into the hub.Also as shown I'm using one of the many other USB ports built into these units......
Do you have a spare joggler in case this one burns up?
Why should it burn up? It's all fused properly and this actually takes some load away from the heart of the Joggler? I'm looking for another one anyway,but will wait until ones comes along at a sensible price.
User avatar
pete
Posts: 2961
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:33 am
Location: Time Traveler

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by pete »

Get an Openpeak labeled Joggler.

They look like Jogglers but have a large metal heatsink. (well and a Zigbee and DECT radio and a ZIF PATA connector) an automotive DC powered USB hub.
- Pete
O2 Jogglers running EFI Ubuntu / Squeezeplayer
OpenPeak Voip Telephony / Zigbee tabletops hardware modded with Seabios / RTC / Ethernet ROM edits / SSD drives running XPe for automation screens

Auto mater
Imagewerx
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by Imagewerx »

You don't say why I should get one? Everyone else says these are so 'resilient',so there should be no need?
User avatar
pete
Posts: 2961
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:33 am
Location: Time Traveler

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by pete »

The Openpeak was designed different than the Joggler.

I have played with no heatsink on the CPU and it's worked for a couple of hours just fine.

That said the Openpeak has a metal fitted heatsink almost as large as the motherboard making the CPU work a bit better.

Putting the Joggler in a DIN mount with no breathing space behind it will make it get warmer than it already gets.

Those little vents on the back of the Joggler do serve a purpose.

Most folks use their Jogglers with the stands that came with them on tables and not in automobiles which indeed does make them very resilient.

The automotive style USB port is a step up relating to regulation of the 5VDC on the USB bus. (well so is an automotive made 5VDC power supply with USB control and battery charging circuit).

My original MS media center small footprint PC did run cool. I put it in a wooden and glass case next to the LCD TV and put cooling fan in the back of the cabinet anyways. You could not hear them.
- Pete
O2 Jogglers running EFI Ubuntu / Squeezeplayer
OpenPeak Voip Telephony / Zigbee tabletops hardware modded with Seabios / RTC / Ethernet ROM edits / SSD drives running XPe for automation screens

Auto mater
Imagewerx
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by Imagewerx »

pete wrote:The Openpeak was designed different than the Joggler.

I have played with no heatsink on the CPU and it's worked for a couple of hours just fine.

That said the Openpeak has a metal fitted heatsink almost as large as the motherboard making the CPU work a bit better.

Putting the Joggler in a DIN mount with no breathing space behind it will make it get warmer than it already gets.

Those little vents on the back of the Joggler do serve a purpose.

Most folks use their Jogglers with the stands that came with them on tables and not in automobiles which indeed does make them very resilient.

The automotive style USB port is a step up relating to regulation of the 5VDC on the USB bus. (well so is an automotive made 5VDC power supply with USB control and battery charging circuit).

My original MS media center small footprint PC did run cool. I put it in a wooden and glass case next to the LCD TV and put cooling fan in the back of the cabinet anyways. You could not hear them.
I think you misunderstood what I meant. It's my home made 5 volt regulator that I THINK is getting too hot as shown here.....

Image038 by Imagewerx R32

The Joggler runs very cool when the car's air con is on due to a leak in the centre dashboard vents blowing cold air across the back of it and the heatsink/stand.Even when the air con is not on,it still gets barely warm while in use even for hours at a time.

I don't know what you mean by an OpenPeak Joggler instead,both of mine show the OpenPeak logo while they're booting up?
User avatar
pete
Posts: 2961
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:33 am
Location: Time Traveler

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by pete »

Very nice DIY power supply. Understood about it getting warm. My only experience here is using pico power supplies. Unless you check the Joggler CPU with software its difficult to tell how warm the CPU is getting.

The Openpeak device has the Openpeak logo embossed on the case versus the Joggler / O2 logo.

The Openpeak sticker on them has a bar code, serial number and MAC ID. The model # on the stick saids Openframe.

So of mine are marked for testing purposes only.

The Openpeak devices stock boot up with a variety of 3rd party company logos or Openpeak Logos. It could be a telco company or an energy utility company boot depending on what they were used for.

Every great once in a while I have 2-3 Jogglers which just freeze with a multicolored screen herringbone pattern. That said they also sometimes start to beacon stuff on the Gb interface which causes me network grief. I have swapped power supplies and also am using POE. I cannot attribute the concern other than maybe its the input power and on inside of the Joggler doing some weird stuff. Most of them except for a few do not have anything plugged into the external USB ports. Watch the boot up USB devices and you will notice that they do sometimes just blink off when booting which can cause a headache when its the media being utilized off of a USB port / hub. It happens way less when the boot media is plugged in directly to a USB port rather than a hub. Even with a Digi Aux Powered hub I have seen this. I have added more USB ports internally and seen the same with these. All said I think that it is just the design that makes it sort of picky. The stock 4 amp power supply is more than adequate as I am POE powering them up with 1 AMP or so.

That said I just power them off and back on again and they are good to go until the next time. Currently the screens all are on a schedules shutdown (well remotely) and they are less warm than with screens on.

Can you do a hand drawing of your wiring device to device?

IE:

Joggler ==> <== 5VDC power supply <== automotive 12VDC input
Joggler ==> USB (5VDC from motherboard) to? hub? ==> USB devices
Joggler ==> optical audio jack
- Pete
O2 Jogglers running EFI Ubuntu / Squeezeplayer
OpenPeak Voip Telephony / Zigbee tabletops hardware modded with Seabios / RTC / Ethernet ROM edits / SSD drives running XPe for automation screens

Auto mater
Imagewerx
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:42 pm

Re: Strange Flirc behaviour

Post by Imagewerx »

All I ever seem to see on sale over here are those that have the exact same stickers on that the two I've already got have on them.

I have the car's permanent live 12 volt feed (fused at 20 Amps and spread over 2 wires into the car's standard ISO connector) controlled by a couple of latching relays by the car's central locking pulses (now it's only switch on which is automatic,switch off I have to do manually).This goes to a 5 volt regulator IC with a big electrolytic capacitor across it and then into the standard power input jack on the back of the Joggler. The power to the new USB socket is piggybacked off this from inside the Joggler.
Post Reply