Strange Flirc behaviour

[Imagewerx]

Back to basics. Have you created a new usb boot stick?

Yes new yesterday from a fresh download and not using the same one on my PC I used before.It's actually working ok today I meant to say before in that it boots up and plays ok and displays the correct information,but the Flirc still doesn't work on this one at all now.

[Imagewerx]

Have you reflashed your Joggler yet?
From what you have said to be honest I would probably just sell it and move on to another device .
If you decide to stick with it there are countless people using these devices 24/7 on various operating systems .Xbmc, squeezeplay , Linux mint etc .
Stick with it, you will get there.. Good luck

No because I'm running from external storage if that's what you mean? Or if you mean something else I did ask if when booting from external if I need to do anything with what's already in there,I was told no leave it as it is.

Also as I said it's the only product that does exactly what I need it to do at a sensible price,so there is nothing to move on to.

[hawsey]

Ahh I read your previous posts now
I have had very similar problems to yourself and I would love a car / van Joggler too.
My problems when I tried to set up a Joggler like this were linked to the power off / on cycles required, if set up and left alone it works fine but powered off and on a few times and all is not good, problems ranging form disappearing music to corrupted os image.
I have wondered if the screen was somehow shut off completely but the Joggler left powered up somehow leaving the os running if this would flatten the battery or would be ok but have not wanted to try it myself.

[pete]

Yup; just relating to use of the Joggler for a CarPC there are a couple of issues.

Here I have integrated the automobiles HU to computers (well 2 of them). The HU's are not touchscreens. The two PCs are devices on the bus. I can remote them and do much with the car (turn lights on, open close windows, start automobile, et al).

The HU's are polarized and use some sort of transreflective material such that you can see the screens in direct sunlight.

1 - viewing the screen can be a major issue
2 - power supply
3 - additional USB devices

In the late 1990's using VIA Epia motherboards I built and used a tank circuit just for said PCs. The tank circuit charged an Aux 12VDC battery which was utilized for the CarPC.

Today if I were to utilize the Joggler for a CarPC I would probably:

1 - replace the capacitance screen or find some methodology of reducing glare from the screen
2 - utilize an automotive USB 5VDC power supply and an aux USB hub powered by same said USB power supply
3 - utilize a carpc power supply with USB control.
4 - use a ZIF connected PATA port SSD for main OS which will work better for the cold / reboot stuff.

You can probably find a used car pc in a small foot print case for cheap today and an older style DIN mountable resistive screen which works in a car for a song and a dance.

[hawsey]

Another thought but possibly adding complications here.
Something like a raspberry pi set up in the car somewhere powered on permanently and hidden running an os serving your music collection to any device including a Joggler might be a good project.
Then the Joggler would only have to switch on and pick up the server to work.

[Imagewerx]

Ahh I read your previous posts now
I have had very similar problems to yourself and I would love a car / van Joggler too.
My problems when I tried to set up a Joggler like this were linked to the power off / on cycles required, if set up and left alone it works fine but powered off and on a few times and all is not good, problems ranging form disappearing music to corrupted os image.
I have wondered if the screen was somehow shut off completely but the Joggler left powered up somehow leaving the os running if this would flatten the battery or would be ok but have not wanted to try it myself.

It's safe to leave it on during the day when I'm still using the car,but I always power down at night as the high standby current draw would be a problem over longer periods like this.It was originally made to start booting up as soon as the remote central locking unlocks the car and then to power it down when the car is locked remotely,but I could over ride the switch off for just one cycle by pushing a button before I got out.The problem was that it was fine as long as I remembered to do the full shut down procedure from the Joggler as you're supposed to do,but if I forgot and let it power down while it was still active,then I got problems and some times it even needed a reflash before it would work again.Now I've disconnected the automatic switch off function so I have to do it manually now,but the switch on is still automatic as soon as the car is unlocked.I haven't checked current draw on the Joggler,but the Squeezebox only drew about 20% less current even when in standby and the screen was switched off.

It runs from a properly regulated and smoothed power supply,but I think the possible cause of some of the times when it just refuses to boot up reliably could be caused by contact bounce from the latching relays that control the power up/down from the car's central locking pulses.This of course won't be a problem when using a plug-in-the-wall mains power supply,so maybe I need to look at debouncing the relay contacts.

[Imagewerx]

Yup; just relating to use of the Joggler for a CarPC there are a couple of issues.

Here I have integrated the automobiles HU to computers (well 2 of them). The HU's are not touchscreens. The two PCs are devices on the bus. I can remote them and do much with the car (turn lights on, open close windows, start automobile, et al).

The HU's are polarized and use some sort of transreflective material such that you can see the screens in direct sunlight.

1 - viewing the screen can be a major issue
2 - power supply
3 - additional USB devices

In the late 1990's using VIA Epia motherboards I built and used a tank circuit just for said PCs. The tank circuit charged an Aux 12VDC battery which was utilized for the CarPC.

Today if I were to utilize the Joggler for a CarPC I would probably:

1 - replace the capacitance screen or find some methodology of reducing glare from the screen
2 - utilize an automotive USB 5VDC power supply and an aux USB hub powered by same said USB power supply
3 - utilize a carpc power supply with USB control.
4 - use a ZIF connected PATA port SSD for main OS which will work better for the cold / reboot stuff.

You can probably find a used car pc in a small foot print case for cheap today and an older style DIN mountable resistive screen which works in a car for a song and a dance.

Ok thanks for all that,but as long as I can get it to boot up properly every time and work from the Flirc then I'll be happy with it working as it is with my music stored on a good ol' fashioned USB flash drive.When it works it boots up in about 40 seconds which although a bit slow,I can live with as it's a full 30 seconds quicker than the Squeeze Box could ever manage.

[Imagewerx]

Another thought but possibly adding complications here.
Something like a raspberry pi set up in the car somewhere powered on permanently and hidden running an os serving your music collection to any device including a Joggler might be a good project.
Then the Joggler would only have to switch on and pick up the server to work.

This is way over complicating it though,if the Joggler can be made to work properly as a stand alone music player (which it can),then I'd be happy to have it working that way.I just can't do computer code or compiling or anything like that,so I need to use the old fashioned stuff as much as possible that I can get my head around.

[hawsey]

What we really need to know, is there anyone using an OS that doesn't mind power off / on without a proper shutdown? PNPIII is what I use on my kitchen Joggler and this is switched off and on constantly without issue so maybe using Squeezplay on PNP III might work for you.
I have another Joggler that will successfully reflash but corrupts after any sort of power outage maybe you have one like that.
What OS are you trying to use?
Have you any photos of your Joggler nestled in the car?

[Imagewerx]

What we really need to know, is there anyone using an OS that doesn't mind power off / on without a proper shutdown? PNPIII is what I use on my kitchen Joggler and this is switched off and on constantly without issue so maybe using Squeezplay on PNP III might work for you.
I have another Joggler that will successfully reflash but corrupts after any sort of power outage maybe you have one like that.
What OS are you trying to use?
Have you any photos of your Joggler nestled in the car?

I've got used to doing the full procedure now because it can't switch off automatically,so it shouldn't be a problem any more.I'm using Squeezeplay as provided by Birdslikewires as I don't want to have it bloated with other stuff I'll never use,I want just a simple music player and nothing else as it is at the moment.

If you scroll down to underneath Stonehenge,you'll see the in-car install photos....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/100945159@N05/

[pete]

@Chris

Very nice installation / integration of the Joggler into your vehicle.

This is way over complicating it though,if the Joggler can be made to work properly as a stand alone music player

It can as long as you keep power to it. The design of device was meant to be always on.

Buzz's Ubuntu build running on the SSD PATA drive does shut down and restart just fine.

I have one configured today as a Squeezebox player feeding audio to one audio zone of my Russound zoned audio system.

I remote control it via my automation system and it just sits right now. The screen is mostly off.

That said its not on a UPS today or connected via a POE cable for power.

The SB server is on my MythTV box. The media is on a NAS.

I have meant to do that and have not to date.

The above noted it has shut down when I have had power failures and has not failed to reboot in about a year of running it.

I haven't paid attention to it and looking at it right now....

[castalla]

Back to basics. Have you created a new usb boot stick?

Yes new yesterday from a fresh download and not using the same one on my PC I used before.It's actually working ok today I meant to say before in that it boots up and plays ok and displays the correct information,but the Flirc still doesn't work on this one at all now.

Do BOTH flircs fail in this device?

Also, maybe you should try with an earlier version of Spqos - see if the same problem exists with version 1.9

[pete]

I had a look at the SP as I don't remember how I set it up.

This Joggler is running Buzz's Xbuntu 12.10 build and booting into SP when it starts.

It is using an SSD USB stick and it has no ZIF PATA drive. To fit the SSD stick I had to remove it from the case and replaced the wireless card with the USB stick.

root@ICS-JogXUbuntu0:~# df -l
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/uba3 7048052 3129364 3918688 45% /
udev 247288 4 247284 1% /dev
tmpfs 252276 28 252248 1% /tmp
tmpfs 50456 720 49736 2% /run
none 5120 0 5120 0% /run/lock
none 252276 100 252176 1% /run/shm
none 102400 12 102388 1% /run/user
/dev/uba1 62322 17748 44574 29% /boot

root@ICS-JogXUbuntu0:~# fdisk -l

Disk /dev/uba: 8042 MB, 8042577920 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 977 cylinders, total 15708160 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x0006fc82

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/uba1 * 2048 309247 153600 ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32)
/dev/uba2 309248 1390591 540672 82 Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/uba3 1390592 15708159 7158784 83 Linux

So taking back what I said before about running it on a PATA SSD; this one does fine with an 8Gb USB SSD stick cold booting and rebooting with no issues.

I do need to update it to Buzz's latest Ubuntu build as the rest of the Jogglers are now running it and doing well.

Webmin is showing that it really doesn't work too hard.

Just read a bit about the Flirc device you are using. Very nice piece of hardware. Here have been using HP IR MS media remotes for my XBMC boxes. I like the footprint of the Flirc. See it for $29.95 USD on Amazon and $26.95 USD on Ebay. Might give one a try.

I do see issues with USB devices not alway coming back on a reboot if they are connected to the Joggler via a USB hub. Typically I unplug the device and plug it back in and it comes up fine. (mostly with my keyboard / mouse do what). Never see this though when I plug the device right into the side port. Using a powered USB hub doesn't always work for me.

Been playing a bit lately with an attached Logitech webcam and a couple of Jogglers running Linux. These always come back plugged into a USB Hub. Recently have added the use of the USB.IDS file for USB devices. It works really well. Here is where I found it.

http://www.linux-usb.org/usb-ids.html

This helped me a bit with modding a microrouter with OpenWRT. It is a neato little box that I talking network, serially and 3G modem with. You could utilize one of these for the carpc internet connectivity making it on demand 3G/4G and with a firewall piece to it and do a VPN connection to your home if you wanted to.

You could also connect the Joggler via an in car network to a mini notebook NAS drive bypassing the USB ports on the Joggler for your stuff. I has an automation set up here to sync my music to the car pcs from the home music nas box using an RFID tag in the automobiles. The carpc's have 1Tb drives in them and aux USB port for an on demand media thing.

[Imagewerx]

@Chris

Very nice installation / integration of the Joggler into your vehicle.

This is way over complicating it though,if the Joggler can be made to work properly as a stand alone music player

It can as long as you keep power to it. The design of device was meant to be always on.

Buzz's Ubuntu build running on the SSD PATA drive does shut down and restart just fine.

I have one configured today as a Squeezebox player feeding audio to one audio zone of my Russound zoned audio system.

I remote control it via my automation system and it just sits right now. The screen is mostly off.

That said its not on a UPS today or connected via a POE cable for power.

The SB server is on my MythTV box. The media is on a NAS.

I have meant to do that and have not to date.

The above noted it has shut down when I have had power failures and has not failed to reboot in about a year of running it.

I haven't paid attention to it and looking at it right now....

Thanks for the compliment and thanks for what ever all those words underneath mean .

[Imagewerx]

Back to basics. Have you created a new usb boot stick?

Yes new yesterday from a fresh download and not using the same one on my PC I used before.It's actually working ok today I meant to say before in that it boots up and plays ok and displays the correct information,but the Flirc still doesn't work on this one at all now.

Do BOTH flircs fail in this device?

Also, maybe you should try with an earlier version of Spqos - see if the same problem exists with version 1.9

I haven't had the chance to try this yet.Don't forget though that the difference exists between two identical Jogglers,both with the same external part number and both with the same internal mother board part number.

[Imagewerx]

I had a look at the SP as I don't remember how I set it up.

This Joggler is running Buzz's Xbuntu 12.10 build and booting into SP when it starts.

It is using an SSD USB stick and it has no ZIF PATA drive. To fit the SSD stick I had to remove it from the case and replaced the wireless card with the USB stick.

root@ICS-JogXUbuntu0:~# df -l
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/uba3 7048052 3129364 3918688 45% /
udev 247288 4 247284 1% /dev
tmpfs 252276 28 252248 1% /tmp
tmpfs 50456 720 49736 2% /run
none 5120 0 5120 0% /run/lock
none 252276 100 252176 1% /run/shm
none 102400 12 102388 1% /run/user
/dev/uba1 62322 17748 44574 29% /boot

root@ICS-JogXUbuntu0:~# fdisk -l

Disk /dev/uba: 8042 MB, 8042577920 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 977 cylinders, total 15708160 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x0006fc82

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/uba1 * 2048 309247 153600 ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32)
/dev/uba2 309248 1390591 540672 82 Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/uba3 1390592 15708159 7158784 83 Linux

So taking back what I said before about running it on a PATA SSD; this one does fine with an 8Gb USB SSD stick cold booting and rebooting with no issues.

I do need to update it to Buzz's latest Ubuntu build as the rest of the Jogglers are now running it and doing well.

Webmin is showing that it really doesn't work too hard.

SP-Webmin.jpg

Just read a bit about the Flirc device you are using. Very nice piece of hardware. Here have been using HP IR MS media remotes for my XBMC boxes. I like the footprint of the Flirc. See it for $29.95 USD on Amazon and $26.95 USD on Ebay. Might give one a try.

I do see issues with USB devices not alway coming back on a reboot if they are connected to the Joggler via a USB hub. Typically I unplug the device and plug it back in and it comes up fine. (mostly with my keyboard / mouse do what). Never see this though when I plug the device right into the side port. Using a powered USB hub doesn't always work for me.

Been playing a bit lately with an attached Logitech webcam and a couple of Jogglers running Linux. These always come back plugged into a USB Hub. Recently have added the use of the USB.IDS file for USB devices. It works really well. Here is where I found it.

http://www.linux-usb.org/usb-ids.html

This helped me a bit with modding a microrouter with OpenWRT. It is a neato little box that I talking network, serially and 3G modem with. You could utilize one of these for the carpc internet connectivity making it on demand 3G/4G and with a firewall piece to it and do a VPN connection to your home if you wanted to.

You could also connect the Joggler via an in car network to a mini notebook NAS drive bypassing the USB ports on the Joggler for your stuff. I has an automation set up here to sync my music to the car pcs from the home music nas box using an RFID tag in the automobiles. The carpc's have 1Tb drives in them and aux USB port for an on demand media thing.

All this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of my realm of understanding I'm afraid.All I need and want is a music player that plays music,it doesn't have to do anything else.The only integration into the car I'd like to get working properly is fully automatic wake up/go to sleep with the ignition key just like a 'proper' car head unit does every time I put the ignition key in or take it out.Can this be done using the keyboard method (or some sort of keyboard emulator) via a USB input?

[pete]

All I need and want is a music player that plays music,it doesn't have to do anything else.

Yup the SB player just boots into Squeezeplayer; nothing else. You don't know it has a meaty OS.

fully automatic wake up/go to sleep with the ignition key just like a 'proper' car head unit does every time I put the ignition key in or take it out.Can this be done using the keyboard method (or some sort of keyboard emulator) via a USB input?

No.

You can put it to sleep; but it will not ever wake with whatever you do with any externally connected USB input device.

There is no battery for the CMOS. You can only do a system shutdown, power it off and power it on. So you can have a structured shutdown and a power reboot on them. The LIRC IR can tell them to shut down. It just will not wake the Joggler. Try it yourself. Plug the Joggler into a wall socket and suspend it. Tell me if you can wake it up.

This is where you can utilize an automotive standard with USB power supply.

DCDC-USB, Intelligent buck-boost DC-DC converter with USB interface.

I was able to wake up the Openframe 7 (with the battery) once a while ago. I couldn't replicate the suspend wakeup though afterwards.



Over the years have purchased a few things from Mini-Box dot com.

Old CarPC boxes where these. They are a bit snug and large. They look nice though (but I never look at them anyways). They are sitting around the house some place. The have 1.2Ghz VIA Epia motherboards.



Currently have the two automobiles set up with these cases - M350's - much smaller and easier to set up. Each have a pico PSU with a timed shutdown configuration.



I can wake up the XBMC boxes with the IR remotes.

The Joggler was meant to be always connected to the Internet, much like many devices today that do not have an off button.

Here I have some 20+ Jogglers throughout the house. They typically are in screen saver mode or the screen goes off. They are scheduled to go off from the mothership every night at a certain time. They run with less power when the screen is off.

On the other hand here also utilize low power Aopen Digital Engines for touch screens. These go to sleep; suspend every night. I can wake them by touching the the screens. These are not tablets though and the screens are from 7" to 19" in the wall.

Have a look here at this project done for the Joggler.

http://www.mp3car.com/show-off-your-pro ... x-5-a.html

[castalla]

I haven't had the chance to try this yet.Don't forget though that the difference exists between two identical Jogglers,both with the same external part number and both with the same internal mother board part number.

Yes - bizarre. But 1.09 is worth a try.

[hawsey]

The main issue here I am sure is the powering off and on of the operating system constantly : I tried running Xbmc OS and another time Linux Mint booting straight in to xbmc off an external Hdd in my van : but had similar issues to yourself and "rested the project for a while " out of frustration.
I have even thought of trying to rig up some sort of battery that will charge when the van is moving and power the Joggler when not so it stays on constantly.

[pete]

You can install a tank battery circuit.



And add a second battery to your automobile.

I did this with my first car PC's.

Then you would add a USB controlled circuit for a nice shutdown. (previously mentioned).