Joli OS for the O2 Joggler

[BuZz]

And neither can store 4gb ? 3941597184 is some megabytes short. I would send them back as faulty!

You could write it to a larger stick and then resize the last partition (smaller) and copy an image to the smaller sticks. I have done some undersized images in the past, but I think it's a better idea to fix it at the usb stick end - as a stick sold as 4gb should not be 3.9gb or so.

[Azelphur]

hehe, they disappear easy, I have 2...I can only tell you where one of them is. No matter I just bought a 16GB stick, that'll cover it.

[blc]

as a stick sold as 4gb should not be 3.9gb or so.

And here's where we unfortunately run into problems defining "gigabytes" and "megabytes"... Sorry, I'm going to get a bit nerdy, so please skip this entire post if you're not interested in why a 4GB image won't fit on a 4GB stick!

If we're using SI orders of magnitude properly then kilo means 1,000, mega means 1,000,000 and giga means 1,000,000,000. According to this scheme, a gigabyte is 1,000,000,000 bytes (or 1,000 megabytes, and and 4gb should be 4,000 megabytes).

Computers usually use multiples of 1024 when it comes to "memory" and filesystems often use this definition also. In this case, a kilobyte is 1024 bytes, a megabyte is 1,048,576 bytes, and a gigabyte is 1,073,741,824 bytes. This is because computers measure everything in binary (i.e. multiples of 2), but the SI system of measurement/units refers to multiples of 10. But storage manufacturers use the SI definition of "mega" and "giga"; therefore a 4gb drive can "only" store 4,000,000,000 bytes. According to a filesystem 4GB may actually be 4,294,967,296 bytes - meaning that you couldn't fit a "4GB" image onto a "4GB" flash drive. This is also partly why the usable space of a drive is never at 100% of the advertised capacity; I have two 500GB drives and a 1TB drive in my PC, but I can only use around ~450GB and ~900GB on each. I recently purchased a 16gb USB stick and Windows only reports 14gb of usable space. Unfortunately manufacturers do not usually consider this as faulty. It also doesn't help when different operating systems and different filesystems measure space differently.

To overcome this problem, the prefixes "kibi", "mebi" and "gibi" (as in, kibibyte (KiB), mebibyte (MiB) and gibibyte (GiB)) were introduced to specifically refer to computer memory & storage. These prefixes equate to the binary sizes usually used in computing, therefore: kibibyte = 1024 bytes, mebibyte = 1,048,576 bytes and gibibyte = 1,073,741,824 bytes. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mebibyte and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibibyte. However hardly anyone uses these prefixes which just adds to confusion, especially when it comes to buying storage space.

Generally speaking, the capacity of storage devices - flash drives, hard drives, etc - is usually measured in proper SI units (gigabyte = 1,000,000,000, etc) and RAM memory is measured in the binary scheme (gibibyte = 1,073,741,824 bytes, etc). The best advice is to over-estimate your storage requirements. If you have a 4GB image you want to put on to USB, get an 8GB drive just to be on the safe side. I had exactly this problem when installing Mac OS X on my netbook; the image of the install DVD was more or less exactly 8GiB, but I had an 8GB USB stick and the image would not fit.

[hawsey]

Ok so maybee the solution for you would be to try Android ICS one stick
http://www.jogglerwiki.com/forum/viewto ... &hilit=ics
For stick no 2 XP http://www.jogglerwiki.com/forum/viewto ... ?f=2&t=305
Or MINT http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/mint/
Then you will need to order stick no 3 for Joli os

I read somewhere on the threads that another 4gb image wouldn't fit using win32 disc imager under windows but would under Ubuntu (even though it said out of memory )
Another thought , have you ran your sticks through the HP disk utility (i use HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool - v2.1.8 , there is a newer one but i use this one ), just in case there is anything lurking on them hogging memory .

[BuZz]

I realise you are informing everyone and not me directly (I am aware of this stuff), but this isn't actually the problem with the USB sticks. My images are 3994880000 bytes in size which should fit on any device that is advertised as 4gb (as in 4,000,000,000). The 4gb verbatim stick I have here is 4001366016 bytes for example. It's just a case of crap flash I guess, where many blocks have been marked bad and are unusable. If I shrink the images more, there will always be someone with a slightly smaller drive. I do agree it's worth getting a larger stick anyway. USB flash is cheap.

I'm referring to unformatted raw device size of course.

Any stick advertised as 4gb should at least have 4,000,000,000 bytes of raw device space. Your thing about 500gb/1tb drive sounds like you are referring to usable space after formatting ? - which isn't relevant when talking about the raw images here of course - my 1TB drive is not 900GB. it is 1000204886016 bytes in size. Filesystems will allocate space for meta data and so forth as you will know (and most operating systems will likely show free/used space in mebibytes/kibibytes/gibibytes as you have mentioned)

[edit] and to add, the person earlier posted a log that suggested their usb stick raw device size was 3941597184 bytes - which is way short, and imho should be considered faulty,

[blc]

I realise you are informing everyone and not me directly (I am aware of this stuff), but this isn't actually the problem with the USB sticks. My images are 3994880000 bytes in size which should fit on any device that is advertised as 4gb (as in 4,000,000,000). The 4gb verbatim stick I have here is 4001366016 bytes for example. It's just a case of crap flash I guess, where many blocks have been marked bad and are unusable. If I shrink the images more, there will always be someone with a slightly smaller drive. I do agree it's worth getting a larger stick anyway. USB flash is cheap.

I'm referring to unformatted raw device size of course.

Any stick advertised as 4gb should at least have 4,000,000,000 bytes of raw device space. Your thing about 500gb/1tb drive sounds like you are referring to usable space after formatting ? - which isn't relevant when talking about the raw images here of course - my 1TB drive is not 900GB. it is 1000204886016 bytes in size. Filesystems will allocate space for meta data and so forth as you will know (and systems will likely show free/used space in mebibytes as you have mentioned)

Indeed, apologies, that wasn't directed specifically at you.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that drives are shipped with bad/unusable blocks, but manufacturers may have tolerance levels for this sort of thing (i.e. "as long as it's plus or minus x percentage away from 4,000,000,000 bytes, we can still call it 4GB"). It's a crappy way to do business, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. I'll admit I didn't look at the entire output listed in the previous posts, but this is nevertheless a source of great confusion so I thought it worth at least mentioning the differences between gibi/giga et al.

Probably shouldn't have mentioned the free hard drive space thing; I'll admit that's probably confusing, because in this case we're talking about the image of an entire drive and free space as reported by the OS is, as you point out, irrelevant. It's still early, my caffiene intake still isn't up at the right level yet...!

It is well worth following up with the manufacturer; but if they won't replace it, then what you mention regarding writing it to a larger drive then shrinking the partition slightly in GParted might do the job. I haven't actually measured the amount of free space after writing one of your images, as I did exactly the opposite: I increased the size of the etx4 partition to fill up an entire 8GB drive.

[BuZz]

heh np. I agree it is often a point of confusion and useful information for people so thanks for posting.

[BuZz]

Azelphur, oh and hi btw. I just clicked who you are I must have not read your username properly!

[Azelphur]

Azelphur, oh and hi btw. I just clicked who you are I must have not read your username properly!

haha hi

and yea, USB is cheap, as I say just found a 16GB stick for like £14 that is really tiny and will do the job.

[BuZz]

New release of Joli OS for testing -

http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/img/jolio ... rfs.img.gz
http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/img/jolio ... xt4.img.gz

Please test this while I am finalising ubuntu 12.04 - if everything is fine, this will become the release.

changes:
use ubuntu 10.10 xserver 1.9 packages
re-do over fresh jolios install - to avoid any outdated files etc
kernel v3.2.16 (one additional patch/revert needed to fix up headphone switching over v3.2.4)
updated grub bootloader - use grub 2.0beta5 rather than custom older patched grub.
packaged mplayer - vaapi enabled mplayer is now on my ppa so I can push out updated
updated xbmc
updated btrfs-tools and other joggler package updates/fixes
simpler sysctl.d vm options (see /etc/sysctl.d/10-vm.conf) - was

Code: Select all

vm.swappiness = 0
vm.laptop_mode = 5
vm.dirty_ratio = 60
vm.dirty_background_ratio = 40
vm.dirty_writeback_centisecs = 60000

now is just

Code: Select all

vm.swappiness = 20
vm.vfs_cache_pressure = 50

please do tweak / test performance with different settings. I felt that the old config could cause more "stalls" when it would write out data all at once.
please let me know anything you notice that I have missed from the previous release, or that doesnt work as you think it should. thanks.

[BuZz]

Updates for Joli OS (14/05/2012)

* Kernel 3.2.16
* EMGD 1.14
* Switch to use Ubuntu 10.10 Xserver 1.9 packages
* New GRUB Bootloader 2.00 beta5
* VAAPI enabled mplayer is now packaged
* Updated and improved Joggler packages - including xbmc, btrfs-tools, rt2870sta
* Other package rollups

[qwakuk]

Trying this out for the first time, where is XBMC ?
How do i install it, not used to Linux

[BuZz]

good point. I should probably make this clear on the site. on the home screen there is a link "local apps" (or similar). once you are in the local apps area, there is another button near the top right "add local apps" (or application). choose that and you get a drop down list. in there you have screen calibration, xbmc and install squeezeplay amongst other stuff. you can choose an item and then it will appear in the future in your local apps area.

[qwakuk]

Excellent mate, found it.

Another cheeky question, i want to load Slingbox player - how do i do it please ?

[BuZz]

not used that - but xbmc can act as a slingbox client so it might be easiest to use that.

[qwakuk]

thanks i found that, but i cannot control the slingbox

[BuZz]

Updates for Joli OS v1.2 (Image version v1.9) (17/06/2012)

* Kernel 3.2.20.
* Distribution Package updates.

[ilovemyjoggler]

Hello. I want to get this on a stick and know that it should be a minimum of 4gb (which I have). I'm hoping to get squeezeplay and, much more importantly, tv add ons so does the stick need to be bigger than 4gb?

[gegs]

Hello. I want to get this on a stick and know that it should be a minimum of 4gb (which I have). I'm hoping to get squeezeplay and, much more importantly, tv add ons so does the stick need to be bigger than 4gb?

Definitely not! Joli OS comes with lots of space for new stuff. 4 gig is more than enough for what you want.

XBMC is great and installing addons is fairly straightforward but I find it easier to navigate the menus with a bluetooth mouse than with my fingers. I run the mouse receiver, a USB distro, USB-powered speakers and a USB soundcard from a single un-powered USB hub.

Squeezeplay is the same finger-friendly animal as on the stock OS and I'd recommend installing the Logitech Media Server and MPlayer too (unless you are running the server from another device).

[ilovemyjoggler]

Gegs, thanks for that. I haven't made time for this yet but it is at the top of my to do list. Usb sound card is winging it's way to me for starters.

Has everyone fiddled with the trip thingy or is it possible to watch tv comfortably without changing the heat setting? I would rather not touch that for fear of creating some type of electrical explosion!