**BUILD 3 - Windows XP Professional SP3 (Plus Tablet PC)**

[johnnygal]

It'll boot, I'm sure. I've booted ubuntu off a 8GB class 6 which ran ok. Minimalism comes at a cost, though. Flash storage won't last very long with xp as the OS writes to the card continuously. You'd better off looking at a USB SSD like the kingspec ones that others are using. You'll wanna hide that inside on the internal USB socket at the cost of losing the wifi, or solder a new one to the board. I have a really tiny Lexar USB stick that barely sticks out the side of the Joggler, but small file writes are shockingly slow. Dan and others are ironing out the bugs with EWF which will cache the smaller writes to memory to commit them to disk at a later time. Keep an eye out for his next build.

Hi,

I've been following this thread with interest and have been playing around with one of the earlier builds. This has often crossed my mind but from googling I cannot see any difference between USB memory sticks and USB SSD drives, both appear to use NAND flash memory, so won't both still be affected by a finite number of writes?

[Mevi]

SD cards intended for camera and video are not going to have the same write durability as those ssds which list boot disk as one of their uses. Mine got lost in the post from hong kong, otherwise I'd be able to talk fro first hand experience. Pete's got a few and speaks highly of them. SD cards that i've used were better off used with an OS that is kinder to them.

[BuZz]

usb sticks typically use a simpler write wear algorithm than ssds. however I have been surprised at how durable my usb sticks have been.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wear_leveling#Types

[danfoshizzle]

I currently run all of my joggler test builds from a SDHC card, think its a class 4, speed is fine and dandy but longevity is not expected, as flash storage has a limited number of writes, whereas ssd has a much larger limit,due to the way the ssd is made, and how data is written to them. For an XP build that is kinder to flash storage, wait till the beginning of January and my new build should be ready, and hopefully will be a better bet for flash storages limits,


Hope everyone had a fabulous Christmas!

[Mevi]

Looking forward to it, Dan. I've got job for your new XP foshizzle. I have a pair of DJ jogwheels that haven't been used in a few months since the netbook got broken. WIKKI WIKKI WAHH.

[Mevi]

Also, there is the physical difference between a wafer thin micro SD card and a SSD stick stacked with chips. The Kingspec is BIG for a USB stick.

[danfoshizzle]

Yeah it is large, even compared to usb sticks its large, I did do a set with my joggler once, and it did the whole night on my first xp build, proud of it really,

And its dj mevster on the decks!!! lmao

[johnnygal]

OK, thanks for the info on the SSD/USB devices. I suppose it is hard to anticipate quite how long a USB stick would last before hitting problems. I have used one on my Ubuntu joggler for about a year with daily usage of a few hours and haven't had any issues yet but I guess XP is harder on it. Pity the SSD devices are so large in comparison.

Thanks.

[johnnygal]

. For an XP build that is kinder to flash storage, wait till the beginning of January and my new build should be ready, and hopefully will be a better bet for flash storages limits,

Cheers Dan - I'll keep an eye out for it!

[danfoshizzle]

No worries, Off out again now to get some drink inside me, its still Christmas after all lol

[johnnygal]

[pete]

I am currently playing with 4 USB SSD 8 Gb Kingspec devices. Two have been removed from their cases and are inside of the Jogglers replacing the WLAN cards. They are doing fine and faster than my fastested conventional memory sticks. Once removed from the case they are a bit smaller than the WLAN cards and fit nicely inside of the Joggler. I've tested Dan's and Mevi's builds though with a ZIF 1.8" drive, 1/2 sized 2.5" drive and regular memory sticks and USB SSD Sticks. Once you mount the stick inside you can rewrite it externally via a hub using the Mevi image included tools.

Relating to regular memory sticks I've been beta testing an application to control my Rain8Nets (sprinkler solenoid switches) via a Sheeva based Linux application. The application is doing constant read writes to the stick getting weather data from my weather instruments or live data from the Internet. Initially started with one generic stick and it did start to get rw errors after a couple of months. Newest endeavor does a backup to a second stick every night. This has worked now for over 3 months. I moved the whole setup to a smaller Seagate Dockstar with small HP memory sticks. It is now sitting in the plastic sprinkler box. The initial set up was on a Sheeva Pogo plug and worked fine; but it was too big to sit inside of the sprinkler box.

That said I am playing now with Joggler #5. Purchased it refurbished on Eaby. It looks new. There is something different about the hardware though. Initially just used a common base image on a stick that I had created for the other 4 Jogglers. It kept giving me a error code 10 and very occasionally would come up but never connect to the network freezing with attaching a network cable. When working once I was able to run the Realtek network diagnostic program and it indicated some resource error; but I am unable to change the base HW resources right now (memory and IRQ et al on the Joggler.

It actually changed the base image such that when I installed it into Jogglers 1-4 it wouldn't go into the network anymore via the NIC port. So I wrote a saved image prior to using it in Joggler #5 and it is working fine now with Jogglers 1-4.

I also did a 24/7 on the wire (via wireless LAN) for Joggler #5. It did intermittently disconnect causing some issues. This is very similiar to my same testing of the Chumby with a wirless connection and intermittent loss of the network. That said I built a new image out of Mevi's latest build for Joggler #5. So far initially it is showing the hardware built in NIC but not attaching to the network; which is better than using a copy of the old modified image. There is something different about the hardware though. Video appears fine and not shifted at all. Kind of bummed right now why I am having problems with the NIC as my preference for connectivity to the Joggler is Gb and 4 Jogglers are doing fine with their Gb connections. The last piece of the testing is running two chatty networked applications with the Aquarium screensaver all remotely controlled via one of the three applications. The 4 Jogglers are doing just fine. We had Christmas Eve here with a number of 4 and less year olds roaming about. They were mesmerized by the Jogglers running the Aquarium screensavers.

So really for a small looking footprint; you can go with a Kingspec USB SSD mounted inside of the Joggler and a smaller WLAN dongle on the side port if you want to continue to utilize WLAN. You can also just plug in a small wireless keyboard/mouse dongle with this setup easily. My first Kingspec USB SSD order came in about a week. The second order took about a month to get here. The last Joggler UK to US order was fast via standard post arriving here on Christmas Eve taking about a week or so.

Here back to back Christmas stuff with Christmas #3 (#4) happening tonight; starting to feel the affects of the "cheer"; nice though to be with family.

[johnnygal]

Hi Pete,

One of my two jogglers I have added internal bluetooth and flash USB by soldering to the additional USB ports, as I wanted to keep the internal wireless and didn't want any externally connected device at all, to keep the clean look.
I did strip both the bluetooth and USB flash drive right down to bare components to fit them in.
Do you think a stripped down SSD device would fit in behind the screen rather than where the internal wireless card is?

Glad you had a good Christmas. We're off shortly to my sisters for our usual Boxing Day evening meal. Should be a good night with all the kids there.

Thanks,
John

[Mevi]

I wonder if it is the NIC hardware itself that is the cause of the error 10 NIC, but another embedded device that is stealing resources.... Dan suspected the PCIe bus devices, which I think are sound and the MMC. I remember installing Belarc Advisor, but can't remember if it's still installed on build 3. When I get back from my lovely Christmas staying with the in-laws, I'll start interrogating the interrupts. Did I mention before that on one of my Openpeak Jogglers I get error 10 on both NIC and the MMC device. Both on the PCIe bus. I believe I'm still using the chipset drivers from Dan's build, but there may be newer or older ones that play more nicely.

In the meantime, more Port and Stilton. Hic!

[Mevi]

Never been much of a DJ, but I've had a few records out. Nothing for a few years now, but there was this remix that I was working on a few months back that I got a bit fed up of listening to.

[pete]

Hello Mevi,

So you have good voltages on the internal USB wiring? Not much room in there. With the Asus I kind of just flatten it out (USB Hub) a bit on the main motherboard. It got a bit warm though.

Watched a good movie late last night called "Just Henry"; check out the mother-in-law in that movie. Nothing toughens up a teenager like delivering your own baby sister.

The stripped down Kingspec USB SSD stick is about 3/4 the size of the WLAN stick almost exactly the same width. It would maybe fit in that space you see up and to the back of where the WLAN card is at; only a guess though.

For whatever reason now your last build starting from scratch as documented above is now working on Joggler #5 with the last 5 cold boots. I have just started to add my personal stuff to it. I have no clue what made it change from the Error code 10 to no error code and it being recognized by the Joggler.

I only saw one hardware device ever with the error in the HW pieces of the control panel. Nothing else. Now I don't see any errors. Odd.

I'm almost 99.99% sure that this new recently just for Joggler #5 build will not work on the other four jogglers.

Yes you did mention it about the error 10 codes early and I think you mentioned maybe a difference in hardware. I guess now I am thinking there are some revs out there that are major hw differences (like maybe when the screen is offset and doesn't fix itself) and some minor hw differences where it maybe just the revision levels of some chips on the board; still keeping the base design of the board the same? Guessing here?

In the 1990's with the old CRT capacitance touch screens I had connected to my children's computers I remember a color blocks like musical screen where they would touch a block on the screen and it would play a note or two of music. That did entertain for hours. I don't really think though too many folks will let infants or children "play" with their Jogglers.

Wife hasn't bugged me yet about getting reading Christmas # XX this afternoon (Sister-in-Law)...lots of kids...jumping around like little monkeys...mixed in with their dogs...funny in a way...I smile politely and get numb a bit obvious to it a bit.

I'm adding my pieces now to your last build on Joggler #5. Adding one piece at a time. Shutting down the Joggler. Restarting it. Comes up the wired network now just fine. Same as the above documented set up. No more Error code #10. On its own its grabbing the internal WLAN MAC address also. With no internal WLAN card it makes up an odd MAC address until I manually put one in (Jogglers #1 & 2 running Dan's XP)

[pete]

Wrote too soon...right about when I was ready to start testing Joggler #5 it went back to the error code #10 thing and no longer goes on the network via the internal NIC.

[Mevi]

Working and then not working... These Jogglers are tricky. I'll be home in a day or two, when we have outstayed our welcome, so I'll get back to work on it.

[danfoshizzle]

Wow pete, your still running the oldest foshiz image, thought that would of been dumped by now lol, And in my opinion I do not think we are missing anything, although i cant pinpoint the mysterious pci devices,I too am still currently at familys houses for a day or two but itching to get back to my joggler and get xp perfect as it can be,

Hope that makes sense but a little drunk, lol

[pete]

Dan,
Your last image is running on two of the Jogglers and Mevi's now on the three Jogglers. Its like that Realtek issue I keep seeing crop up where the fix is to reset the CMOS.

John,

I think you maybe could fit the USB SSD inside somewhere. I will take a picture of it next to some measurements so you can get an idea. Maybe cut a piece of cardboard to the same dimensions to test. Where did you fit the Bluetooth and USB Flash drive. The USB SSD drive is much larger though than a conventional memory stick.

Merry Christmas to you too John!

Mevi,

Up and running tonight again on the NIC. Loaded and running aps tonight to test with Aquarium running in the backround.