I'm kicking myself that I didn't buy one of these back when I had a chance at £50. Oh well, they're on ebay at that price so looks like I can still grab one.
I'm trying to help a friend out with sorting out some home audio streaming and in researching this I've stumbled over the joggler again and I think I'm going to grab one myself now too.
Firstly for my friend. Am I right in thinking there is no video out on the joggler? I found a post on another forum where they said a USB VGA card could be used to output the vido signal but I haven't managed to find much information on this forum about this method... does it work? Is the quality good enough when piped into a large screen HD TV? Do any of the USB video cards do audio too as my research leads me to believe the native audio is not a good thing! If this has been discussed at length, sorry... I'm probably searching with the wrong keywords. He's currently leaning more towards the new WDTV live for his main media player, but if the joggler will do the job...?
He also wants a further "installation" in the kitchen and initially wanted audio only. I think this could be achieved with the usb audio stick alone. He then asked about powering a small TV and I told him that the joggler itself at 7" would probably be ok for limited tv watching during cooking! Is that right? I'm assuming that from relatively close up the screen would be perfectly watchable?
Lastly for all round stability and ease of use, is a hacked joggler the way to go? Bearing in mind that he needs to have audio/video usb plugged in, there's no opportunity for running an OS from a USB stick so it's a firmware change I believe?
Cheers for any help/pointers.
noob questions!
Re: noob questions!
Well... not an overwhelming response then!
Anyhow, on with the noob questions. I now have a joggler. So far all I've done is enable ssh and dump apps on there. I installed (rather foolishly with hindsight) the PMJ 0.3 script to get bbc, etc. but dear lord what's with all the peripheral crapola it decides to dump on there too!? I feel a factory reset coming on. I then installed squeezeplayer and then the iplayer app.
First impressions... (some of which could well be user error!) I find the iplayer app frustrating and slow. The obvious behaviour on that front screen is to scroll down to look at the other channels. So I put my finger on and scroll, let go and "ping!" It loads whichever channel I was touching when I scrolled! This is not a good thing. Even with a good network connection, it's sometimes slow to load things up, even the radio (whereas the squeezeplayer iplayer app is very fast to load the radio stations). As for the "on demand" bit... well I really don't know if it's me going wrong, but it seems to be a bit strange in there. A list of very small icons which are hard to click on and just seem to lighten/darken the icon when you do click on them. No list of available shows appear? Then if you search (which seems to be the only way to get shows to appear) it doesn't give a full list. My wife, being a fan of "strictly come dancing" clicked on bbc1, then typed in "strictly" and searched. Up comes the "it takes two" progs but nothing to do with the actual show?
The audio out definitely needs the USB stick. I thought I might get away without it, but the headphone socket is massively underpowered and just won't do. If you're reading this thinking you can get away with it, you can't. Order the usb audio at the same time.
This raises another question... if I want to experiment with alternative O/s like ubuntu or joli, then how do I run this AND have the audio plugged in? Powered USB hub only? I'd have thought that questions like this could be addressed by the wiki but I can't find anything about this on there.
Anyhow, on with the noob questions. I now have a joggler. So far all I've done is enable ssh and dump apps on there. I installed (rather foolishly with hindsight) the PMJ 0.3 script to get bbc, etc. but dear lord what's with all the peripheral crapola it decides to dump on there too!? I feel a factory reset coming on. I then installed squeezeplayer and then the iplayer app.
First impressions... (some of which could well be user error!) I find the iplayer app frustrating and slow. The obvious behaviour on that front screen is to scroll down to look at the other channels. So I put my finger on and scroll, let go and "ping!" It loads whichever channel I was touching when I scrolled! This is not a good thing. Even with a good network connection, it's sometimes slow to load things up, even the radio (whereas the squeezeplayer iplayer app is very fast to load the radio stations). As for the "on demand" bit... well I really don't know if it's me going wrong, but it seems to be a bit strange in there. A list of very small icons which are hard to click on and just seem to lighten/darken the icon when you do click on them. No list of available shows appear? Then if you search (which seems to be the only way to get shows to appear) it doesn't give a full list. My wife, being a fan of "strictly come dancing" clicked on bbc1, then typed in "strictly" and searched. Up comes the "it takes two" progs but nothing to do with the actual show?
The audio out definitely needs the USB stick. I thought I might get away without it, but the headphone socket is massively underpowered and just won't do. If you're reading this thinking you can get away with it, you can't. Order the usb audio at the same time.
This raises another question... if I want to experiment with alternative O/s like ubuntu or joli, then how do I run this AND have the audio plugged in? Powered USB hub only? I'd have thought that questions like this could be addressed by the wiki but I can't find anything about this on there.
Re: noob questions!
If you want to use USB out you will indeed need to use a powered hub if using Ubuntu. Remember that you can increase the system volume in Ubuntu and also in the native OS - this may avoid the need for a USB sound card.
Re: noob questions!
Sorry dwl99 but I have to disagree! I have a set of Logitech stereo USB speakers, a portable hard drive with Ubuntu, a USB soundcard and a bluetooth receiver for a wireless mouse - all running from an un-powered USB hub.
carled - Re: your problems with iPlayer, I think this is due to not understanding how to use the interface, as you yourself hinted at. Read the iPlayer thread fully and have a play around; it took me a while to get the hang of it. To scroll, run your finger up and down any part of the screen EXCEPT the buttons. In the Categories section you can scroll anywhere on the listings except the small thumbnails, which you touch to launch the TV programme.
I honestly think that your frustration with iPlayer is down to inexperience; spoyser has crammed a lot of functionality into a small space and it takes a while to get accustomed. With time you will love it, I'm sure. It is the most frequently used app on my Joggler (by my wife, and she's a technophobe.)
carled - Re: your problems with iPlayer, I think this is due to not understanding how to use the interface, as you yourself hinted at. Read the iPlayer thread fully and have a play around; it took me a while to get the hang of it. To scroll, run your finger up and down any part of the screen EXCEPT the buttons. In the Categories section you can scroll anywhere on the listings except the small thumbnails, which you touch to launch the TV programme.
I honestly think that your frustration with iPlayer is down to inexperience; spoyser has crammed a lot of functionality into a small space and it takes a while to get accustomed. With time you will love it, I'm sure. It is the most frequently used app on my Joggler (by my wife, and she's a technophobe.)
Last edited by gegs on Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: noob questions!
They clearly have better electricity in Embra 
Re: noob questions!
Hi,
Thinking about what you are after, an external tv card might be a bit too much for the joggler, if you fancy giving it a try i would love to be proven wrong.
The external dac / sound card is def the way to for best sound quality.
If you search the forum for ATV joggler you will find geggs has his joggler connected to a hdd streaming 720 p to a main tv kitted up with an Atv2 with xbmc jailbroken of course , i am busy setting up a similar system but with an Acer revo at the tv instead.
Also along the lines of what you are after i believe people are using the joggler as a myth tv front end to pipe tv to the kitchen or wherever the joggler is, this is on you tube if i remember right.
Good luck with your project ,keep us updated.
Thinking about what you are after, an external tv card might be a bit too much for the joggler, if you fancy giving it a try i would love to be proven wrong.
The external dac / sound card is def the way to for best sound quality.
If you search the forum for ATV joggler you will find geggs has his joggler connected to a hdd streaming 720 p to a main tv kitted up with an Atv2 with xbmc jailbroken of course , i am busy setting up a similar system but with an Acer revo at the tv instead.
Also along the lines of what you are after i believe people are using the joggler as a myth tv front end to pipe tv to the kitchen or wherever the joggler is, this is on you tube if i remember right.
Good luck with your project ,keep us updated.
Happy Joggling
Re: noob questions!
But better pubs in Glasgow. I worked in Glasgow for over 4 years and I have many good (though slightly hazy) memories.dwl99 wrote:They clearly have better electricity in Embra
carled - If you want to know how I set up the Apple TV 2 you can PM me. It's probably Apple's best value piece of kit but needs to be jailbroken to realise its full potential. There's also the "Ellion TVROI T1" which runs Android and, unlike the ATV2, has a USB host controller for plugging in external devices (ATV2 is streaming only). The Joggler could stream to both of these boxes.
Ellion device link on Amazon: http://amzn.to/s4oNmt
---EDIT---
The Ellion device only supports wireless connection with an optional adapter. The Apple TV 2 has wireless N capability built in.
Last edited by gegs on Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: noob questions!
Yay! activity on my thread. Have now clicked on "notify" so I don't miss replies!
I have had better luck with the bbc iPlayer app recently. It's seems a bit more responsive of late. Maybe I had broadband issues I wasn't fully aware of. I still think that the default "drag action" behaviour should suppress the finger position as this is where all my family have gone when I experimented. I'm sure they could learn to drag outside the icons, just wanted to add some constructive criticism!
So... I now have an 8GB USB stick so I can experiment a bit more. I already have a revo with xbmc running for my main tv/media server setup - the joggler is purely for the kitchen. The reason I was asking about tv out is that my friend doesn't have a media player solution and I'm trying to find the best one for him. The "rules" I am sticking to on his instructions are:
He'll have a NAS box with DLNA and squeezebox server running. From this there needs to be three media player parts to the system. One for bedroom with TV out, one for lounge with tv out and one for kitchen with tv viewing/audio out. The overriding rule is that all three points need to have access to both his own downloaded music collection AND internet/streaming (spotify premium account) and all 3 points need to be able to access iptv services like iplayer, itv player, 4 on demand. The kitchen player definitely needs remote control via his android phone (so squeezebox commander or xbmc remote would work perfectly depending on client player) and the lounge player would also benefit from this functionality.
The kitchen player doesn't need tv out, will be perfect for joggler on its own with USB audio enhancement I think. This will be plugged into an amp to distribute to speakers outside on patio as well as indoors for music in the kitchen.
The lounge player needs to be able to plug in to his Bravia 37" HD TV (It's full HD though, and I think his model doesn't upscale SD content well) AND it needs to be able to output audio to the A/V receiver and surround sound system he has.
The bedroom just needs to be able to play media files from the NAS server and access IPTV services if possible. No remote control via phone is required here (apart from usual tv remote).
(He does have a 4th playing point - the garage, but I've told him to use the squeezebox app on his galaxy S2 and plug it into external speakers when out there and he thinks that's fine).
It's now a case of trying to find the best solution that fits his needs. I like the idea of XBMC on a joggler in the lounge but:
a) it needs to be able to play local music files and give access to spotify and/or squeezebox (via which spotify would work) and
b) I'm not sure how well it can cope with outputting high enough resolution to look good on a 37" full HD Bravia!
If it could satisfy both points above, then it would be a case of establishing the best way to run this. I think I read that the best installation option is a linux distro on the USB stick with xbmc applied on top, rather than trying to run xbmc live via the stick? I'd also need a small non-powered USB hub to have external audio and video. gegs - how good is this video out solution you run then?
In the kitchen, the standalone joggler would be fine. What seems to be missing from the base o/s with apps is full IPTV. There appears to be no itv/channel 4/channel 5 access, only bbc iplayer from what I can tell? To get full IPTV I presume it's a case of linux distro on usb stick with extras added. Is Joli maybe the best way to go? They'd like internet access for recipes/browsing whilst cooking in the kitchen and it all needs to be simple/quick/easy for his technophobe wife!
Bedroom player they are leaning towards an as-yet-unspecified internet-enabled tv. I don't even know if such a beast exists and, if it does, whether it will have local media playback capabilities. I'm guessing DLNA at best there though. I doubt that the joggler scenario would be needed here, but I suppose a similar setup to the lounge but with output from usb audio to speakers instead of amp. Gegs - how good is the sound from these usb-powered speakers? Do I still need external audio usb or do the speakers take over the audio output as well as playback?
So many questions! Sorry... will keep you informed of progress though! Still got half an eye on writing my own HTML5/CSS3 front end for some of it...
I have had better luck with the bbc iPlayer app recently. It's seems a bit more responsive of late. Maybe I had broadband issues I wasn't fully aware of. I still think that the default "drag action" behaviour should suppress the finger position as this is where all my family have gone when I experimented. I'm sure they could learn to drag outside the icons, just wanted to add some constructive criticism!
So... I now have an 8GB USB stick so I can experiment a bit more. I already have a revo with xbmc running for my main tv/media server setup - the joggler is purely for the kitchen. The reason I was asking about tv out is that my friend doesn't have a media player solution and I'm trying to find the best one for him. The "rules" I am sticking to on his instructions are:
He'll have a NAS box with DLNA and squeezebox server running. From this there needs to be three media player parts to the system. One for bedroom with TV out, one for lounge with tv out and one for kitchen with tv viewing/audio out. The overriding rule is that all three points need to have access to both his own downloaded music collection AND internet/streaming (spotify premium account) and all 3 points need to be able to access iptv services like iplayer, itv player, 4 on demand. The kitchen player definitely needs remote control via his android phone (so squeezebox commander or xbmc remote would work perfectly depending on client player) and the lounge player would also benefit from this functionality.
The kitchen player doesn't need tv out, will be perfect for joggler on its own with USB audio enhancement I think. This will be plugged into an amp to distribute to speakers outside on patio as well as indoors for music in the kitchen.
The lounge player needs to be able to plug in to his Bravia 37" HD TV (It's full HD though, and I think his model doesn't upscale SD content well) AND it needs to be able to output audio to the A/V receiver and surround sound system he has.
The bedroom just needs to be able to play media files from the NAS server and access IPTV services if possible. No remote control via phone is required here (apart from usual tv remote).
(He does have a 4th playing point - the garage, but I've told him to use the squeezebox app on his galaxy S2 and plug it into external speakers when out there and he thinks that's fine).
It's now a case of trying to find the best solution that fits his needs. I like the idea of XBMC on a joggler in the lounge but:
a) it needs to be able to play local music files and give access to spotify and/or squeezebox (via which spotify would work) and
b) I'm not sure how well it can cope with outputting high enough resolution to look good on a 37" full HD Bravia!
If it could satisfy both points above, then it would be a case of establishing the best way to run this. I think I read that the best installation option is a linux distro on the USB stick with xbmc applied on top, rather than trying to run xbmc live via the stick? I'd also need a small non-powered USB hub to have external audio and video. gegs - how good is this video out solution you run then?
In the kitchen, the standalone joggler would be fine. What seems to be missing from the base o/s with apps is full IPTV. There appears to be no itv/channel 4/channel 5 access, only bbc iplayer from what I can tell? To get full IPTV I presume it's a case of linux distro on usb stick with extras added. Is Joli maybe the best way to go? They'd like internet access for recipes/browsing whilst cooking in the kitchen and it all needs to be simple/quick/easy for his technophobe wife!
Bedroom player they are leaning towards an as-yet-unspecified internet-enabled tv. I don't even know if such a beast exists and, if it does, whether it will have local media playback capabilities. I'm guessing DLNA at best there though. I doubt that the joggler scenario would be needed here, but I suppose a similar setup to the lounge but with output from usb audio to speakers instead of amp. Gegs - how good is the sound from these usb-powered speakers? Do I still need external audio usb or do the speakers take over the audio output as well as playback?
So many questions! Sorry... will keep you informed of progress though! Still got half an eye on writing my own HTML5/CSS3 front end for some of it...
Re: noob questions!
The USB speakers are only USB powered, they get the audio signal from a 3.5mm connection plugged into a USB soundcard. I hope this helps.carled wrote:Gegs - how good is the sound from these usb-powered speakers? Do I still need external audio usb or do the speakers take over the audio output as well as playback?
Re: noob questions!
It helps... but didn't tell me your opinion on sound output/quality!
Re: noob questions!
Sound quality is great - no noticeable background hum at high volumes like I experienced with the internal card. The biggest difference is in volume. I use these speakers http://amzn.to/uyuELz and this cheap USB card http://bit.ly/vNDyWg and most of the time I fluctuate between volume setting 2 or 3 in the kitchen when using iPlayer. 3 is pretty loud.
Use the forum search facility, it works pretty well. There have been lots of posts about USB soundcards and how to modify the asound.conf file to get them working.
---EDIT---
I forgot to mention that I also have a joggler hooked up to a USB card with S/PDIF output to an AV amplifier. This setup is in my living room and is used exclusively for Squeezeplay. The USB card in this setup is ancient and I can't find an equivalent online, but anything with C-Media chips should work because they are well supported in Linux.
Use the forum search facility, it works pretty well. There have been lots of posts about USB soundcards and how to modify the asound.conf file to get them working.
---EDIT---
I forgot to mention that I also have a joggler hooked up to a USB card with S/PDIF output to an AV amplifier. This setup is in my living room and is used exclusively for Squeezeplay. The USB card in this setup is ancient and I can't find an equivalent online, but anything with C-Media chips should work because they are well supported in Linux.
Re: noob questions!
Well, first alternative o/s tried... it was Joli.
I don't want to offend anyone that has probably put a lot of work into it and maybe my expectations are too high... but boy, was that a mind-numbingly bad user experience! Incredibly slow to respond to anything (I have set thermal trip point to 80), issues with calibration even after multiple attempts to recalibrate, almost unusable interface... that's not going to be high on my list to try again!
What's the most responsive setup out there? I'm thinking of an ubuntu install next with xbmc. However I do still want to run squeezeplay if possible - is there any way of achieving this? (without the family having to learn how to delve into 4 submenus and try and click on a tiny target with a large finger...)
I don't want to offend anyone that has probably put a lot of work into it and maybe my expectations are too high... but boy, was that a mind-numbingly bad user experience! Incredibly slow to respond to anything (I have set thermal trip point to 80), issues with calibration even after multiple attempts to recalibrate, almost unusable interface... that's not going to be high on my list to try again!
What's the most responsive setup out there? I'm thinking of an ubuntu install next with xbmc. However I do still want to run squeezeplay if possible - is there any way of achieving this? (without the family having to learn how to delve into 4 submenus and try and click on a tiny target with a large finger...)
Re: noob questions!
maybe your usb key is slow ? jolios performs decently here. What was the specific problem with calibration?
my ubuntu builds come with squeezeplay and xbmc. you can make shortcut icons for whatever you like on the desktop. ubuntu desktop may perform slightly quicker than jolios as it isn't web based, but it's less touch friendly unless you install a launcher type thing (like the ubuntu netbook remix interface)
my ubuntu builds come with squeezeplay and xbmc. you can make shortcut icons for whatever you like on the desktop. ubuntu desktop may perform slightly quicker than jolios as it isn't web based, but it's less touch friendly unless you install a launcher type thing (like the ubuntu netbook remix interface)
Re: noob questions!
I'd hope not as it's brand new, but you could be right! Any way of testing it?BuZz wrote:maybe your usb key is slow ? jolios performs decently here. What was the specific problem with calibration?
Calibration issues meant that the cursor was never quite where my finger was and I couldn't get to the scroll bar on the side of the window with all the apps. As the only place I could find the xbmc app was at the bottom of this list, it was a pain to fire up the on screen keyboard and use the down arrow to get to the app, hide the keyboard, double click on the app... wait.... wait... wait... double click again, it's not working... wait... wait... oh, there it is. Oh, there's two instances starting up, exit out of one... ah, hard work as the screen clicks aren't on target and are very slow to respond... and so on!
Also the calibration meant I couldn't get the cursor to the very top of the screen to return to main menu and so on. Is this really fast for other people? I just can't see how!
Re: noob questions!
Something like http://crystalmark.info/software/Crysta ... dex-e.html perhaps
the joggler touchscreen is not accurate at the edges. I suspect it is a hardware issue, but after calibration its accurate enough to work with jolios. you might want to wait once it is booted up too, as it could be looking for updates/updating package meta data and so on, and if the usb stick is busy, stuff will be slower.
I run jolios on both of my jogglers, and although apps like spotify can be a bit fiddly, i find xbmc/squeezeplay and chrome etc quite ok.
perhaps you should try android ?
the joggler touchscreen is not accurate at the edges. I suspect it is a hardware issue, but after calibration its accurate enough to work with jolios. you might want to wait once it is booted up too, as it could be looking for updates/updating package meta data and so on, and if the usb stick is busy, stuff will be slower.
I run jolios on both of my jogglers, and although apps like spotify can be a bit fiddly, i find xbmc/squeezeplay and chrome etc quite ok.
perhaps you should try android ?
Re: noob questions!
Yeah, maybe... I've read some bad reports on Android though!
Is there no way of getting xbmc and squeezeplay on the jolicloud front page? I can't see my wife & kids finding their way through that mass of menus...
Is there no way of getting xbmc and squeezeplay on the jolicloud front page? I can't see my wife & kids finding their way through that mass of menus...
Re: noob questions!
not with the current jolios/jolicloud interface. but it's only two clicks away, (local apps then xbmc etc), so not a biggie.
Re: noob questions!
It is a biggie if you can't scroll down to the bottom of the list... Maybe I need to rename the xbmc link to make it appear up top! I literally cannot click far enough right to get hold of the scroll bar in the local apps folder.
Oh and it's one screen sideways and two levels down for me? local apps then more apps...? Is that right or am I missing something?
Oh and it's one screen sideways and two levels down for me? local apps then more apps...? Is that right or am I missing something?
Re: noob questions!
which list ? you add xbmc to the local apps page, and it is then an icon there, and you shouldnt need to scroll anything.
you can add it to the actual local apps page. you dont need to go to more local apps etc. go to local apps, and there is a button top right to add a local app. choose xbmc in that list and it will then be an icon on the local apps page for next time.
you can add it to the actual local apps page. you dont need to go to more local apps etc. go to local apps, and there is a button top right to add a local app. choose xbmc in that list and it will then be an icon on the local apps page for next time.
Re: noob questions!
carled - I think JoliOS is great as a finger-friendly Joggler OS, but it does fire up a lot of web apps that aren't so easy to navigate if you have fingers like Havana cigars. For this reason I plumped for Buzz's excellent Ubuntu distro but I navigate with a wireless mouse; I've found most Joggler images frustrating, to a greater or lesser degree, when relying on the touch-screen interface.
Having said that, my kids love JoliOS and it gets fired up on a regular basis (I don't always use the same OS, variety being the spice of life and all that.)
Having said that, my kids love JoliOS and it gets fired up on a regular basis (I don't always use the same OS, variety being the spice of life and all that.)