24/96 Squeezeplay and External USB DAC

[Wilberforce]

hi all, I am getting noise/interference coming through from my Joggler to M-DAC (audiolab DAC)/amp/speakers. Not sure if I missed this originally or if this has crept in with use. Rebooting seems to improve the problem (not completely) but it does seem to get worse with time. I have tried both my Jogglers, both the same problem with or without Wilberforces addin.

I am running SqueezePlay os ideally with Wilberforce's/Triodes addin, connecting to MDAC via USB.

The noise / interference almost sounds like processor chatter breaking through into the audio signal?!? It is not squeezeplayer or MDAC gain dependent, but does get loader with amp volume and weirldly affect all inputs on the MDAC, ie even when switching over to say optical or coax the same noise can be heard through the speakers. Pull the USB out of the joggler and silence.

Any ideas?

Try disabling power saving on the cpu. Append:

Code: Select all

intel_idle.max_cstate=0 processor.max_cstate=0 idle=poll

to your kernel parameters in grub.cfg. Which will be on the first partition or your usb stick / internal memory. If you use sqpos I believe this will already me mounted at /boot.

[Wilberforce]

Like a few others on this thread I am looking to run the Joggler in between my laptop and my MDac. With the playlist controlled via IPENG.

Being not that PC literate, first thing is first, which is, how do I get my laptop running Windows XP to see the Joggler. So data can pass up and down the cable ?

My plan is to run the music files from the laptop to the Joggler via an Ethernet cable. Then USB out to the MDAC. I will get to that bit later.

The used Joggler I bought has Squeezebox software on it already.

All help gratefully appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Ps if there is a better way of achieving my aim, please let me know

You basically need an instance of logitech media server running - this can be on your windows pc, the joggler, a NAS, etc. If on the joggler, you could setup a network share (shared folder) which would then be mounted on the joggler (search this forum for samba / cifs shares) and added to your music library. If on the windows pc, you'd just add the music folder to the library directly. You can have mutiple servers and switch between them.

[themystical]

hi all, I am getting noise/interference coming through from my Joggler to M-DAC (audiolab DAC)/amp/speakers. Not sure if I missed this originally or if this has crept in with use. Rebooting seems to improve the problem (not completely) but it does seem to get worse with time. I have tried both my Jogglers, both the same problem with or without Wilberforces addin.

I am running SqueezePlay os ideally with Wilberforce's/Triodes addin, connecting to MDAC via USB.

The noise / interference almost sounds like processor chatter breaking through into the audio signal?!? It is not squeezeplayer or MDAC gain dependent, but does get loader with amp volume and weirldly affect all inputs on the MDAC, ie even when switching over to say optical or coax the same noise can be heard through the speakers. Pull the USB out of the joggler and silence.

Any ideas?

You have tried alternative USB Cables? That might be worth a shot! Make sure the cable you use is USB2 compliant....

[davidismynaim]

thanks for the suggestions...i have tried two cables, but not sure if either are USB2.0, not sure how I check this...i will try wilberforces suggestion tomorrow. Others have suggested using USB isolator thingy...but would like to try and fix this at source, as the interference is quick significant.

[24bit]

Like a few others on this thread I am looking to run the Joggler in between my laptop and my MDac. With the playlist controlled via IPENG.

Being not that PC literate, first thing is first, which is, how do I get my laptop running Windows XP to see the Joggler. So data can pass up and down the cable ?

My plan is to run the music files from the laptop to the Joggler via an Ethernet cable. Then USB out to the MDAC. I will get to that bit later.

The used Joggler I bought has Squeezebox software on it already.

All help gratefully appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Ps if there is a better way of achieving my aim, please let me know

You basically need an instance of logitech media server running - this can be on your windows pc, the joggler, a NAS, etc. If on the joggler, you could setup a network share (shared folder) which would then be mounted on the joggler (search this forum for samba / cifs shares) and added to your music library. If on the windows pc, you'd just add the music folder to the library directly. You can have mutiple servers and switch between them.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, but I don't really understand much of that. At the moment I can't get my laptop to recognise the Joggler when I connect them with a cat 6 cable. I assume I need to create that network first of all.

If that assumption is correct, how do I do that?

From the laptop?

From the Joggler?

Do I need to get the IP address of the Joggler first?

Does that mean that the Joggler has to be connected to the Internet?

I should say I am not looking for wireless streaming all round the house. The laptop, Joggler and DAC will able be hard wired together as I am looking for the best sound quality possible.

I tried Apple Airport Express with an AirPort Extreme, streaming apple lossless files, and it sounded terrible. Hence, me now trying to drop the wireless transmission.

[Wilberforce]

Q. If that assumption is correct, how do I do that?

A. Yes, Here are the options:
- manually assign an IP to both joggler and laptop
- have the joggler or your laptop set up as a DHCP to automatically assign the other an IP
- Use an already existing DHCP server (the one running on you router?) to assign an ip to both joggler and laptop

Q. Does that mean that the Joggler has to be connected to the Internet?
A. They can form a network isolated from your internet connection.

You can find plenty of guides on the net, so I won't go into the details.

I think blaming the Wireless is a bit of a red herring (unless you are getting dropouts from buffer underuns and need more bandwidth).

[24bit]

The wireless could be a red herring.

The DAC was registering the data as having a sampling rate of 48khz, where being ripped from CD is should have been 44khz. I didn't experience any noticeable dropouts.

Maybe it's just my Audiolab transport and DAC / amps/ proac speakers are a bit too high end for streaming apples lossless? But the hi res music I am looking to explore should be great

[davidismynaim]

Try disabling power saving on the cpu. Append:

Code: Select all

intel_idle.max_cstate=0 processor.max_cstate=0 idle=poll

to your kernel parameters in grub.cfg. Which will be on the first partition or your usb stick / internal memory. If you use sqpos I believe this will already me mounted at /boot.

ok, it is 15 years since I used Unix, and while I find it amazing I can remember how to use vi!! I have no idea what grub is nor how to append this values to the grub.cfg file...

my file reads:
set timeout=0
menuentry "SqueezePlay OS (Internal) v1.07" {
linux /vmlinuz-3.2.23jog1 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 loglevel=3 ro quiet
initrd /initrd.img-3.2.23jog1
}


should I amend to read:

set timeout=0
menuentry "SqueezePlay OS (Internal) v1.07" {
linux /vmlinuz-3.2.23jog1 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 loglevel=3 ro quiet
initrd /initrd.img-3.2.23jog1
}
intel_idle.max_cstate=0
processor.max_cstate=0
idle=poll

sorry for having to ask such a newbie question, but don't want to just edit it and leave my joggler in a bad way

Thanks in advance

[Wilberforce]

Should look something like:

Code: Select all

set timeout=0
menuentry "SqueezePlay OS (Internal) v1.07" {
    linux /vmlinuz-3.2.23jog1 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 loglevel=3 ro quiet intel_idle.max_cstate=0 processor.max_cstate=0 idle=poll
    initrd /initrd.img-3.2.23jog1
}

[papaiannis]

I have done some tests with the Joggler connected to a WaveIO USB-to-Spdif board. This board is based on standard USB Audio Class 2.
Before EDO was installed, everything worked well.
After having installed EDO, the WaveIO board is recognized by the Joggler. When I selected it as the new digital output, the Joggler rebooted. After reboot, the following message appeared "Dac not connected". In the digital ouptup menu, selecting the WaveIO, the current status shown is "Stop". Trying to play a file or a radio station, the Joggler shows the usual interface, but the playing time doesn't appear, indicating that playing has not actually started. No sound comes out.

Is EDO compatible with USB Audio Class 2?
Is there anything that I can do to have the WaveIO working with EDO?

[Wilberforce]

I have done some tests with the Joggler connected to a WaveIO USB-to-Spdif board. This board is based on standard USB Audio Class 2.
Before EDO was installed, everything worked well.
After having installed EDO, the WaveIO board is recognized by the Joggler. When I selected it as the new digital output, the Joggler rebooted. After reboot, the following message appeared "Dac not connected". In the digital ouptup menu, selecting the WaveIO, the current status shown is "Stop". Trying to play a file or a radio station, the Joggler shows the usual interface, but the playing time doesn't appear, indicating that playing has not actually started. No sound comes out.

Is EDO compatible with USB Audio Class 2?
Is there anything that I can do to have the WaveIO working with EDO?

Could be a bug related to sounds card name (as shown in brackets in the output of /proc/asound/cards).

[themystical]

I have done some tests with the Joggler connected to a WaveIO USB-to-Spdif board. This board is based on standard USB Audio Class 2.
Before EDO was installed, everything worked well.
After having installed EDO, the WaveIO board is recognized by the Joggler. When I selected it as the new digital output, the Joggler rebooted. After reboot, the following message appeared "Dac not connected". In the digital ouptup menu, selecting the WaveIO, the current status shown is "Stop". Trying to play a file or a radio station, the Joggler shows the usual interface, but the playing time doesn't appear, indicating that playing has not actually started. No sound comes out.

Is EDO compatible with USB Audio Class 2?
Is there anything that I can do to have the WaveIO working with EDO?

EDO is compatible with UAC2, I have my Amanero USB Interface working very well with it. EDO is also compatible with the WaveIO Board, see the attached list of compatible DAC's.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... MZnc#gid=0
However other people who have tried the WaveIO board with the Joggler report a similar issue to yourself. A workaround is apparently to "Relaunch", see this thread on PFM. This gets WaveIO working but is lost again on "Reboot".
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/show ... 913&page=4
I hope you can find a more permanent fix with the help of the likes of Wilberforce on this forum.

[Wilberforce]

EDO is compatible with UAC2, I have my Amanero USB Interface working very well with it. EDO is also compatible with the WaveIO Board, see the attached list of compatible DAC's.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... MZnc#gid=0
However other people who have tried the WaveIO board with the Joggler report a similar issue to yourself. A workaround is apparently to "Relaunch", see this thread on PFM. This gets WaveIO working but is lost again on "Reboot".
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/show ... 913&page=4
I hope you can find a more permanent fix with the help of the likes of Wilberforce on this forum.

Interresting... It may be worthwhile putting a

Code: Select all

sleep 10

in your ~/.xinitrc (before it loads squeezeplay) - just in case there is a race for the card to be initialised.

[davidismynaim]

Should look something like:

Code: Select all

set timeout=0
menuentry "SqueezePlay OS (Internal) v1.07" {
    linux /vmlinuz-3.2.23jog1 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 loglevel=3 ro quiet intel_idle.max_cstate=0 processor.max_cstate=0 idle=poll
    initrd /initrd.img-3.2.23jog1
}

Thanks, tried this, seems to have removed cpu chirping noises, now it is more of a constant mid/high whining sound that was there before with the cpu chatter on top. only really hear it when volume turned up to loud levels, and then of course with the music playing you can't hear it, but in between tracks and quiet passages you can. any more thoughts? anything think an isolator is worth a try?

Cheers

[Wilberforce]

You could try

Code: Select all

idle=mwait and idle=halt

, but other than that I'm not sure.

[themystical]

Thanks, tried this, seems to have removed cpu chirping noises, now it is more of a constant mid/high whining sound that was there before with the cpu chatter on top. only really hear it when volume turned up to loud levels, and then of course with the music playing you can't hear it, but in between tracks and quiet passages you can. any more thoughts? anything think an isolator is worth a try?

Cheers

Since you are getting bit-perfect audio according to your tests, it doesnt seem to me that the whine is coming through the D+ or D- (Data) connection of the USB link. That leaves the +5V and earth connection. I am not sure whether the USB interface within the MDAC is powered independantly of the incoming USB supply? I know John Westlake, the DAC designer is meticulous in his power supplies implementation so it may well be which only leaves the Earth connection. You could try plugging the Joggler into a socket seperate from the one your DAC is plugged into to see whether that makes any difference....this might help sink any disturbances in the earth connection through a seperate low impedance path. Failing that, a USB isolator might be worth a try.
Obviously I would try out Wilberforce's "soft" suggestions first since if you can eliminate the disturbance from occuring in the first place, thats the best solution.

[Bemused]

Hello all,
First I would like to thank Wilberforce for taking the time to make this available for all of us.
I am the thread OP from pfm refered to by themystical a few posts back.
Still having "Dac not connected" on reboot or cold start with WaveIO USB-to-Spdif board.
Relaunch is my current workaround, adding sleep 10 did not help

I tried the suggested

Code: Select all

sudo nano ~/.xinitrc

My .xinitrc is

Code: Select all

export DISPLAY=:0.0
setterm -blank 0 -powersave off -powerdown 0
xset dpms 0 0 0 s off
sleep 10
if [ -f /opt/squeezeplay/bin/squeezeplay.sh ]; then
        /opt/squeezeplay/bin/squeezeplay.sh
else
        xterm
fi

Tony

[davidismynaim]

thanks for help guys.

I have exchanged with John Westlake over at pfm and he said

Yes, the USB isolator will solve the issue - appears the joggers AC adaptor is injecting HF noise into your systems Ground...

Which is in agreement. I will try different power sockets, also switching over powerpacks. The two jogglers I have have different power supplies, one a wallwart the other a pack with an IEC plug. Also will try later wilberforce soft suggestions and finally will try isolator. If I can fix this, the joggler will be my main listening system

Anyone else hearing similar interference?

[themystical]

[quote="davidismynaim"
Anyone else hearing similar interference?[/quote]
Well....being super-critical....I do get the occasional static like crackle. This seems to be completely at random. I might not hear it for a dozen songs and then might hear it twice in the following song. It does not distract in any way of my enjoyment of the Joggler as a streamer.
I might add that I have never heard this occasional static like crackle from the SPDIF output of the Joggler, only the USB.

[Bemused]

Yes I had a buzz with WaveIO, would not describe it as chirping though.
I am using WaveIO I2S non isolated at the moment and the noise is on USB power ground, my temporary fix is to connect USB power ground to PE.
Later on I will move to WaveIO isolated ground outputs and remove PE.
I would not expect different mains power sockets to help, but it's good to be suprised...