Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

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Juggler
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Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by Juggler » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:34 pm

The wiki article :

https://www.jogglerwiki.com/wiki/Adding_a_PATA_port

explains a great deal.

But just to experiment, I thought, what if I just solder a header onto the PATA pads, then I can connect whatever to it. Admittedly there may be issues closing the joggler back up. I'm thinking I can find a better solution to mounting a PATA drive externally, or even just a connector, this way. And I would be able to test and compare a PATA connected drive with applications I'm currently using USB for.

I think I would need a right angle header, but I don't know what the pitch would be ( space between the pins ). Plus this way soldering on and removing with braid should be easy enough ?

Once the header is mounted, I could use 40 wire flat cable with female connector to connect suitable hardware on the drive end.

Comments on the above would be greatly appreciated.

Could anyone comment on how much, if any, of a speed improvement is using a PATA connected drive over a good USB3 thumb drive on the USB port ? Is it possible to boot from a PATA connected drive using the standard BIOS or can the PATA drive only be used once booted and set up from a USB connected drive ?

TIA

J

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Re: Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by pete » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:43 pm

I have tried this purchasing the ZIF clips for the O2 Joggler and the Openpeak 2 (with front speakers).

Purchasing a hot air gun and tiny tips for my soldering station with large circular lamp with magnifying glass.

Totally destroyed the pads on the Openpeak 2. That said I have left it open for tinkering. Added another USB port to it using the USB camera pins, microSD socket (which did not work) and was working on looking for a tiny mini PCie true SATA card.

Here also have what appears to be an O2 prototype board that is the same as the Openpeak 2 except with a bunch of stuff removed and a socketed EFI boot chip rather than a soldered one. The motherboard is marked with red marker on both sides "O2". It boots up fine.

I had issues with the connected ZIF clip on the O2 Joggler where it remains on and I believe soldered correctly.

This was all many years ago.

I came across a batch of Openpeak 1's a few years back which look exactly like the Openpeak O2 except these have a metal heatsink that runs across the entire width of the mother board, PATA ZIF clip, Zigbee Chip, DECT chip and working microphone (for DECT chip use). These were being sold on Ebay in a trickle of sorts and coming from OpenPeak via 3rd parties. All of these were marked beta units and had an Openpeak logo O2 style on the case.

Purchased everyone of these I saw on Ebay being sold from around $35 up. I do not think most folks assumed that they were O2 Jogglers.

Modded these adding an RTC/battery, Realtek NIC ROM, PATA SSD drive and Aux USB hub. Never did add a digital audio output though.

The ZIF cable is just a flipped cable 40 or 44 pin cable. Fits nicely across the motherboard to the SSD drive. Set ups here have the WLAN stick, SSD drive and RTC on the left. I did clip out some plastic for this stuff to fit. Case closes / snaps together fine.

Today these are my base Jogglers as they each have a 16Gb SSD drive and aux USB port running embedded Windows XP from the SSD drive.

I have a few of these running Buzz's Ubuntu Linux. I did have one booting from the SSD drive. I do not know how I got this to work as I trashed it the other day and redid the whole using a USB SSD stick inside to boot to the PATA SSD drive such that I have 24 Gb of SSD drive and use the stick for the home drive.

Ideally getting the PATA port to work on the Openpeak 2 would be nice as the ZIF cable and SSD are relatively skinny enough to close the case. I did try a Broadcom Crystal mini PCIE card for being able to stream live TV on the Openpeak 2 with KODI. Worked great streaming movies, live TV and using SSD storage or a USB stick. The Openpeak 2 also has an RTC battery and Zigbee chip and DECT chip and microphone for telephony.
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Re: Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by Juggler » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:15 pm

Some great stuff there Pete !

Any chance you could post some photos of what you've soldered onto the PATA port and from a few different angles ? I'm very interested to see what you've done.

Thanks

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Re: Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by pete » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:48 pm

The old O2 is somewhere here in pieces in a plastic bag. That said took apart last modified Openpeak which shows the ZIF clip and ZIF cable. Note here the flipped ZIF I used was too thin on one side so I put some scotch tape on side and carefuly trimmed it with a razor blade for a tight fit.

I have this one defaulting to Squeezeplayer and the eMMC is starting to go as I had to wipe it a few times with Andy's boot repair and write application.

I just now removed the SSD and USB stick and it took some 5 minutes to boot. Even Squeeze player is sitting at the logo for a very long time.
OP-1.jpg
OP-2.jpg
OP-3.jpg
OP-4.jpg
OP-5.jpg
Definitely an issue here with the stall of the boot and related to the eMMC. Rewrote Andy's SP OS and it ran FSCK 3 times before it started to write to the eMMC. It still is stalling when writing to the eMMC. Wondering if I should try writing a seabios to the rom then booting to a USB stick in DOS to low level format the eMMC?

Seems that it checks the eMMC first before booting the USB/SSD card and that is where it is stalling.
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Re: Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by pete » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:19 pm

This morning ran Andy's SP write to the eMMC. First and second time saw many fsck errors. 3rd and 4th time I saw no errors.

Going to maybe try swapping out the EFI rom boot chip to the Seabios rom boot chip and use currently configured 16GB ZIF SSD with embedded XP.

There will run the HDD guru low level format of the eMMC to see if it fixes it?

Meanwhile here replaced the 8 Gb SSD USB stick with a 16 Gb mini USB stick with same booting stuff to the 16Gb SSD.

Booting fine now to the 16Gb SSD. So I have a total space of 32 Gb for Buzz's build. Last configuration moved the home directory to the USB boot.

Now wondering if I deleted the partitions on the eMMC if the EFI boot rom will just go to the USB stick first?
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Re: Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by pete » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:25 pm

Fixed the eMMC partition such that it doesn't stall when booting. Not sure how long that will last though. A while back did get the SSD drive to work booting and running the OS. Not there yet. Installed a new micro 16Gb USB stick and using the boot partition there to boot to the SSD partition just pointing to it in the boot config file. I also installed a new micro USB TP-Link WiFi dongle on the device. Works great. TP-Link offers a Linux solution build a driver which worked well. A while back found a 64Gb MLC SSD drive. Never could get Linux to recognize the drive. Never found reasonably priced 32 Gb SSD drives here only many reasonably priced 8Gb and 16Gb SSD drives. I see the flipped 40 pin longer ZIF cables are scare these days. One thing too is if I connect the SSD to a ZIF cable to a SSD to USB the drive boots up fine. Easiest way for me to use the SSD is to use the USB to SSD device to write Linux or Windows embedded images to it.

I have over the years documented this stuff here on the Joggler forum. I do this for my self here as I always let my fingers do the walking and don't pay much attention to nomenclature of what I am doing. IE: many times I am not physically thinking what my hands are doing; sort of like dialing a phone number but not remembering the telephone number.

Today for my embedded XPe screens replicated them backing up the image in vivo to a USB stick then writing image to a new SSD drive. Works 100% of the time.

Still on a need to do list some day is to upgrade the OpenFrame 2 with an SSD drive and use of a microSD boot drive. Figure out the DECT stuff and Zigbee stuff for use.

One of the best pieces of hardware to the Openframe 1 versus the O2 was a solid heatsink the entire width of the motherboard. This is also present in the Openframe 2 devices. There are two indents on these heatsinks; one for the CPU and another for the GPU.

Been playing here with Node Red and Mosquitto. Thinking of making the Joggler a display touchscreen for Node Red.

There is a lot of life left in the Jogglers today as these devices with their glass touch screens were made to last forever.

As mentioned previously here primarily use the Jogglers for XPe automation screens (15 of them). Most of these are POE Gb connected to the network with a few now connected only via WiFi. These also do Microsoft SAPI TTS/VR. Been collecting SAPI voice fonts here since the late 1990's. Nice variety versus one voice say for Alexa, GV, et al.

Squeezebox players (4-5 of them). Well now looking at Node Red.
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Re: Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by pete » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:15 pm

Before I started to change stuff here I was able to boot from only the ZIF SSD drive. I did redo the USB stick and the SSD drive was booting form the USB stick.

What I did though is change the name of the boot partition to all capital letters and the grub.cfg and fstab were showing the partitions in lower case.

(fat fingered the naming of the partitions)

Changed the grub.cfg and fstab such that the Joggler now boots from the SSD rather than use the USB to boot.

Now changing the USB stick such that it just becomes a home drive disk when booting.

Now internal to the Joggler have 32Gb of play space and went to using a nano USB wifi stick for wifi which works fine.
gparted.jpg
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Re: Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by pete » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:28 pm

Relating to pata SSD booting from the EFI boot a while back thinking a forum user mentioned that the Avaya boot rom had the SSD boot stuff built in.

That is why I am using it today with any model of the Jogglers or Openpeak devices.

It is sugggested to also write a new ROM to the Realtek built in NIC. Doing so will let you suspend and use a WOL to wake up the Joggler with a magic packet and have a MAC address as the original rom on any model Joggler doesn't have a MAC address.

Optional too is the installation of an RTC with battery. Note that the Openpeak 2 already has a battery in it.

Just a bit of bit banging and loading up the RTC on boot.

Another option is the addition of a small USB hub to the back of the Joggler using the motherboard pins for USB 2.0 as documented on the Joggler Wiki.

And still another hardware option is the installation of an optical HD audio port fitted to the back of the Joggler. This too is documented in the Wiki.

I have not played much lately with the Joggler hardware as it has been working just fine these days.

Basically here just wrote Buzz's Ubuntu latest desktop image to a PATA SSD ZIF drive using a small ZIF to mini USB card.

Expanded the image to the size of the SSD.

Used GParted to rename the partitions to linux-boots, linux-swap2 and linux-roots

Edited the /boot/grub.cfg file like so:

loadfont /unicode.pf2
terminal_output gfxterm
set timeout=5
menuentry "Xubuntu 14.04 LTS (Trusty) - 3.2.84joggler1" {
linux /vmlinuz-3.2.84joggler1 root=LABEL=linux-roots ro quiet splash
initrd /initrd.img-3.2.84joggler1
}


Edit the /etc/fstab file like so:

# /etc/fstab: static file system information.
#
# Use 'blkid -o value -s UUID' to print the universally unique identifier
# for a device; this may be used with UUID= as a more robust way to name
# devices that works even if disks are added and removed. See fstab(5).
#
# <file system> <mount point> <type> <options> <dump> <pass>
proc /proc proc nodev,noexec,nosuid 0 0
LABEL=linux-roots / ext4 errors=remount-ro,noatime 0 1
LABEL=LINUX-BOOTS /boot vfat defaults 0 0
LABEL=linux-swaps none swap sw 0 0
tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults 0 0


You can keep the entire working partition to the PATA SSD card. Here used a 16Gb USB stick for my /home directory stuff. Easy to do this by:

1 - create a new ext4 partition on the USB stick using Gparted from the Joggler Ubuntu desktop
2 - mount a new home directory locally on the SSD IE: say /media/home
3 - rsync /home to /media/home IE: sudo rsync -aXS --exclude='/*/.gvfs' /home/. /media/home/.
4 - edit your /etc/fstab file to include or use the new home partition
IE: /dev/uba3 /home ext4 defaults 0 2

Hardware required:
1 - ZIF clip
2 - USB to ZIF drive case with USB to ZIF board
3 - Flipped 40 Pin ZIF cable - ~ 14 cm long and folded as in picture - blue and blue ends are thicker and work better. With a white end you need to thicken it a bit for the clip so I used scotch tape.
4 - you can fit the PATA SSD drive on the left over the USB WiFi stick just fine. I used a bit of painters masking tape.

One other issue that I have seen in the last few years is that the barrel connector / NIC / Audio board ports sink in to the Joggler. This can cause an intermittent power connection to the Joggler. This is because the board is mounted with hot melt glue. The easy fix is just to heat up the glue until it melts a bit while holding the board in place. To get to the combo board you have to remove or move the motherboard over a bit. I used a BBQ grill gas lighter with a stalk to heat up the hot melt glue just for a few seconds such that I do not melt the plastic around the board.
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Re: Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by verg0 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:40 am

Hi guys, after a long time off the joggler scene i came across my old joggler sadly just sitting there in a box in my garage yesterday and wondered how you guys got along with adding the PATA ZIF connector to the joggler!

Seems like people have had some good success getting it to work and boot which is really good to hear! :)

I've been looking for some "up to date" info/links/instructions for flashing SeaBIOS with coreboot if anyone can help point me int the right direction?

My goal is to finally take the plunge and solder the PATA connector to my joggler and install a mini ssd to it, if it works then great! ...If i kill the pads on my board, well least i tried eh!

Thanks for reading hope someone can help.

Cheers

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Re: Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by pete » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:28 pm

Not easy. Tried once and messed up the pads. Second time it looked good but didn't really work well.

Purchased OpenPeak Verizon test devices (bunch) which already had the Zif clip and that is what I am using today for my touchscreens here running.

These look like O2 Jogglers except they are labeled OpenPeak and are using different motherboards with a microphone, Zigbee and DECT chips and have a metal heatsink across the entire motherboard. Mine have been on 24/5 > 5 years now powered by POE GB power and OpenPeak PS.
They are like the larger Openpeak 2 devices with the speakers in front except there is no mini pcie card slot inside. The boot EFI rom chip is replaceable on the Openpeaks.

1 - Ubuntu
2 - Windows XPe

https://www.jogglerwiki.com/wiki/Adding_a_PATA_port

I've been looking for some "up to date" info/links/instructions for flashing SeaBIOS with coreboot if anyone can help point me int the right direction?

Download the attached zipped coreboot file and put it on a usb stick plugged in to the Joggler

The type the following via SSH to your joggler

1 - cd /mnt - go to your usb stick
2 - modprobe fh
3 - copy your original rom to usb stick
dd if=/dev/fh of=/mnt/original.rom bs=1024k
4 - copy your seabios rom to joggler
dd if=/mnt/coreboot.rom of=/dev/fh count=1 bs=1024k
4 - reboot

You can go back to the original rom using the F12 key load up the original rom.
coreboot.zip
(190.92 KiB) Downloaded 59 times
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Re: Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by verg0 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:16 am

Great! Thanks for your reply pete, i was thinking it's just been sitting there in the garage and would be a shame to throw it out so ill take my chances and hope for the best,, if i screw it up least i gave it a shout, i wish i could find the openpeak version with the connector already on th board for sale somewhere but they're pretty hard to find these days unles youve got one spare to sell me ha!

Thanks again for the info ill let you know how i get on

Cheers!

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Re: Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by pete » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:47 pm

Yeah here started to tinker with little WiFi devices updating them with Tasmota / Espurna firmware. Tiny things and soldering tiny wires to them for JTAG.

Take your time with the Joggler PATA port stuff.

Only use an illuminated magnifying glass and a small soldering tip and lots of flux.

Kind of configured a standard of sorts with the Openpeak devices using SSD, seabios, mac address and RTC stuff. Very well built little machines.

I do have some spare parts here and will look. It has been a long time.
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Re: Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by pete » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:28 pm

I am low on spares these days having given away a few hardware modded Openpeak devices.

I did sell one as one Joggler user sent me $200 USD for one modded device (I did not ask for any monies for said device) and another sent me a mini Samsung computer in trade for an unmodified Openpeak 2 computer.

Off topic here revisited the Chumby's stuff as I installed one in my Dentist office and it is still going strong for music in the office. One of the original founders of the Chumby has redone the company.
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Re: Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by Juggler » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:51 pm

Hi All

Revisiting this topic after some time...

Firstly, thanks Pete, for your info, despite my silence.

At the time of starting this topic, I thought that instead of desoldering the required 40 pin ZIF connector from a board, as recommended, that it may be easier to buy the right connector, then solder that on.

I haven't opened a Joggler to confirm this, but spent several hours yesterday, researching, what I believe is required, and confirmed to an extent with the photos Pete provided.

Firstly, the right connector to solder to the Joggler's board. In the "Adding a PATA port" guide, this is marked as PATA J11 and shows a series of solder pads, marked 1 to 40. So there are 40 pins and I believe the pitch (space between) between the pins is 0.5mm. Cheapest I could find on AliExpress delivered to the UK are :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32848021743.html
this is currently $1.50 for 10 pieces delivered. I'm not certain that this is the right connector, but it looks very much like/identical to the connector used in the "Adding a PATA port" guide. The listing title is "10pcs FPC Connector socket FFC 0.5MM Clamshell Bottom Contact Type 4P 6P 8P 10P 12P 14P 18P 20P 22P 24P 30P 32P 36P 40P 45P". In addition to being known as ZIF, they appear to be also described as FPC and FFC connectors. I have a data sheet for this connector and it looks like it could be the right item.

Secondly is the cable. The photos Pete provided, were very helpful here as I used the code on the cable as a starting point. That is "AWM 20624 80C 60V AW-1". Some possibilities from AliExpress are :

10pcs Flexible flat cable FFC 20cm 0.5mm Pitch Isotropy A cable AWM 20624 4/6/8/10/12/14/16/18/20/30/32/40/50/60 Pin Same sides
US $4.50
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32839515697.html

10pcs FFC 200mm 0.5mm Reverse B Type Opposite Side Flexible flat cable 4/6/8/10/12/14/16/18/20//30/32/40/50/60 Pin AWM 20624
US $4.50
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32842330663.html

With the right connector soldered to the Joggler's board and the right cable, I believe a storage device with the 40 pin IDE PATA ZIF connector could be used directly, Alternatively, an adaptor board could be used that will take the 40 pin cable and allow a standard IDE PATA storage device to be used or a compact flash card. Or possibly other interfaces and storage devices.

With a long enough cable, it could be brought out of the Joggler's case and the storage device and possible adaptor can be held on the outside back of the Joggler, or possibly other locations.

I'd be very interested to hear comments on the above, especially if I have the parts right or not. My biggest concerns are on the pitch of the connector (0.5mm) and the type of connector. Aliexpress, has a few different types. I'm guessing that there is some sort of opening on the connector that the cable can be inserted into, and the opening then closed, so that that the contacts on the cable are pressed against the pins soldered onto the Joggler's board.

As an aside, possibly useful for connector rework and and possibly of help to people who want to remove the connector from a 1.8" to 2.5" ZIF Adapter, are desoldering needles. Cheapest delivered to the UK, I found are :

10 Kinds PCB Electronic Circuit Stainless Steel Needle Set Through Hole Needle Desoldering Welding Repair Tool 80mm 0.7-1.3mm
US $0.15
Shipping: US $0.91 to United Kingdom
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957182931.html

10 Kinds Stainless Steel Needle Set PCB Electronic Circuit Through Hole Needle Desoldering Welding Repair Tool 80mm 0.7-1.3mm
US $1.18
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32830700644.html

Hollow needles desoldering tool electronic components Stainless steel 8Pcs/lot
US $1.27
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32956007045.html

This post has some useful information and videos on it :
https://hackaday.com/2017/04/03/have-yo ... g-needles/
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlkebIBpw80

They look very useful for through the board components, but may be useful for surface mount components, like the ZIF connector, when using a traditional soldering iron. Idea is to start at one end and pull the connector up a little, hopefully enough to slide the needle onto the leg working on. May be a non-starter as there may not be enough play. Desolder braid or some other, could work well enough to make this pointless.

Nice to be back, and look forward to your comments...

J

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Re: Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by Juggler » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:13 pm

I've ordered what I believe are the right parts and hopefully they will arrive safely from distant lands. My greatest concern is obtaining the right socket to solder onto the board. Anyway, I'll find out eventually.

When looking at an Orange PI PC recently, there is a very similar/same connector, albeit less contacts, for the camera.

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Re: Solder header onto Joggler PATA port

Post by pete » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:03 pm

Somewhere here have a bunch of these zif sockets. That said will take a close up picture of the socket installed in the Openframe2. With these sockets I used a flipped ZIF cable. It was long and I folded it inside of the OpenFrame.

Will look for my box o zif sockets....thinking they are lost on my workbench...will find them...
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