An atempt to run Windows 8 on the joggler - and much more

[Berns]

An atempt to run Windows 8 on the joggler

This atempt running windows on a Joggler is based on fundamental research executed before by other people on the forum related to booting and firmware.
The aim is to run Windows (preferably 8.1) on an O2 Joggler.

Day 1: 31/07: Enabling the re-use of a memory stick using images stored on a computer hard disk
Day 2: 02/08: Enabling backup and easy restore of internal memory just for safety
Day 3: 02/08: Changing the boot system from O2 to coreboot and back
Day 4: 04/08 and following??: Booting w8.1
Day 5: 08/08: Attempting to boot anew AND attempting to install from original Windows 8.1 media DVD
Day 6: 12/08: Attempting to install using another machine as temporary installation host <- This works. WOW. Wheeha.

Edit on 28/08/2014: For those who just want to go and steam ahead to run windows 8.1, just execute step 1 of Day 3 and then proceed to Day 6

What you need: (This list is being build during the experiment, so this post will be edited)

Hardware:
-Optional: A master Joggler (reference) that will not be used, except for making a master backup
-A Power bar (avoids pulling plugs to reboot)
-A (target) Joggler that will be used to completely modify
-A set of USB memory sticks (at least 1x 256MB minimal, 1x 2GB, 1x 4GB, 1x 8GB minimal )
-A USB drive (we'll discover if this is needed later on)
-A USB wifi stick (we'll discover if this is needed later on)
-A USB hub (powered)
-A USB keyboard (preferably querty)
-A USB mouse (maybe?)
-A USB sound blaster (optional)
-A PC (To build this log, A windows 7 home edition machine was used)
-for day 6 experiments: a desktop PC with a hard disk controller that matches the hard disk in the housing of a USB disk you might have in your possession
(In my case, I had a USB disk that actually is a SATA disk, and the motherboard of the desktop PC I used was equipped with a SATA controller)

Software:
- Disk Imager: I used version Win32DiskImager-0.9.5-install, 12.003 large, directly from the top of the page link
- Partition manager: This is version 2014. Using it to format usb sticks to completely blank
- xubuntu 14.04 from buzz: for this purpose I used ubuntu_base_14.04-v1.0-ext4.img.gz
- 7Zip: to unzip/zip gz files like the one above
- Checksum calculator: to be able to calculate the md5 file for the image we want to build from one joggler
- The all known ssh tool Putty: to allow to issue commands remotely
- The roms.zip file from a post on this forum: The post is from Pete and is dated Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:33 am
- On this windows 8.1 forum entry refer to a post from MickChip to have a W8.1 image
- As this image did not work for me, I had to make one myself. For that I needed to download the install DVD from Microsoft (test versions are available for free, and I used the pro version)
- As I'm using windows 7 on my regular machine, I don't need any software to burn this ISO file to a DVD. W7 home premium is able to do that out of the box.
- As I had to build a USB install from the DVD ISO, there is an alternative that might save you the cost of a DVD-R. There are multiple ISO mounting tools. The one I prefer is Virtual CloneDrive:
Basic reading
Preparing myself for the adventure I've been reading (amongst many others):
-Bringing your joggler in a native yet workeable contemporary state
-Rest assured: FAQ: there are multiple ways to go back
-About putting a boot system on the O2 that allows for booting Windows
-What you want to go for
-The basic ways of bringing your joggler to life
-A collection of working solutions that can be used in combination with the "bring to life" system mentioned in the point above

It is safe to say that it is not recommend starting the procedure below without having read through tof he Basic reading section above.
If you love your joggler so much that you don't want to trake it to the trash yard, then at least and before you take it to the surgery room for treatment do this:
-Hug it
-Tell it you love it

Note: all windows programs will be "run as administrator"

Day 1: Backup and restore procedures: Freeing up a memory stick:

This part of the experiment is entirely optional if you have a spare memory stick of at least 8GB at hand. As I did not, I had to free up some place on a stick.
The target machine is actually a O2 joggler that boots from a memory stick to a squeezeplay OS machine part of a pair of such systems.
The 2 jogglers form a stereo set, one joggler plays the right channel and the other the left channel.
In this experiment the "left channel" machine will be the untouched reference machine and the "right channel" machine will become a windows 8.1 machine ... eventually.

This is what the machines look like while in regular use, when they are waking us up in the morning.

stereo alarm clock and weather station

So, first thing to do is to make a backup of the memory stick and validate if it works on another stick.
This is done with a windows 7 PC using win32diskimager
When installed the program can be found on this spot on your hard disk: C:\Program Files (x86)\ImageWriter

Just use its image reading functionality and save what's on the stick to an image.

002 - image read successfull.jpg (9.48 KiB) Viewed 11404 times

Write it to (another) stick to verify if the procedure works.

004 - image write successfull.jpg (9.73 KiB) Viewed 11404 times

Put it in the Joggler.
Boot and verify if everything is still as operational as before.

Hooray. It worked!!!

As of now, we can use and re-use the 4GB memory stick that normally is used to boot SqueezplayOS for the right machine for whatever purpose, knowing we can go back to its original content at any moment in future.

[Berns]

Day 2: Backup and restore procedures: Backup and restore of internal memory of joggler.

This is how the 2 machines look like before the procedure, and when booted from internal MMC.

As you see, the left machine has a few more apps then the right machine. You can, for example, see that the left machine has a shutdown app.
The left machine is configured as it came. The right machine has undergone some limited experiments.

Today we want to backup the left machine and restore the backup on the right machine.

If we succeed, it is proven that this procedure can be used and re-used to make a backup of the MMC of the joggler to be re-inserted at any time in future.
The main result would be a SIMPLE way to RESTORE if ever needed.

Technically, the aim we want to achieve is to build a boot-stick that writes an image to the internal memory of the O2 (not the flash memory) to make it identical to the reference system
Challenge: make a ".img.gz" and ".md5" file to be added to the "reflash" tool of Roobarb based on an existing joggler in our possession.

STEP 1: preparing 2 memory sticks, 1x 2GB (with Ubuntu to boot), 1x 4GB (to put the backup image on, and later use as reflashing tool)

Yesterday, I freed up a 4 GB memory stick having a proven backup on an image. The stick is 4 GB large, but shows only 30MB, because windows OS cannot deal with the second partition of the stick.
I have another 2 GB stick at hand.

To completely remove anything that might be on the sticks It's a matter of deleting partitions.
I us Partition Manager. You can execute this step with any other tool you like for that purpose, obviously.
Please make sure not to erase your important systems while using partition management tools.

When using Partition manager, don't forget to "apply" pending changes on the partition manager system.

007 - apply.jpg (20.51 KiB) Viewed 11397 times

STEP 2: Creating a 2 GB stick to boot Linux

Using 7zip extract the img from the Ubuntu gz file.
Using diskimager write it to the 2 GB stick. The result will be a stick with a number of partitions, where only a very small fraction can be seen by windows 7.
While writing the disk image, you can already work on STEP 3

STEP 3: Prepare the hardware for system backup
-To avoid network error messages, just connect the joggler to a direct network cable. It will save you some seconds afterwards
If you're not able to hook it to a working network with a DHCP server, the Joggler will bring you through a number of screens, claiming network is not entirely functional and so.
That's not a blocking matter.
-grab the powered USB hub, and connect it to the reference Joggler you want to backup.
-Connect keyboard to the USB Hub
-The 2GB stick will hold the external Ubuntu you use temporarily to backup the Joggler internal MMC system (that will be inserted in the hub once step 2 is completed)
-The 4GB stick will hold the image of the reference Joggler at the end.

STEP 4: Boot the reference joggler into ubuntu

Try booting the Joggler now:

Left stick in the hub is a 2GB micro SD card that rests in a USB-Micro SD adapter. This stick is the one holding ubuntu from step 2 above.
Right stick in the hub is a 4GB stick that was freed up during day 1

Just log in using user joggler and password joggler

STEP 5: Format the 4GB stick into vfat and mount it

To have a view on how your joggler is configured disk wise type this command:
sudo lsblk -o NAME,FSTYPE,SIZE,MOUNTPOINT,LABEL

configuration of file systems

The mmcblk0 is the internal memory containting the joggler original system we want to capture.
The uba is the system you booted on
The ubb contains the ubb1 vfat (fat 32) partition

Just to be safe, we'll format the 4GB stick on Ubuntu.
First let's try to unmount it:
sudo unmount /dev/ubb
normally, the joggler should state the drive is not mounted yet.

Then let's format it:
sudo mkfs.fvat /dev/ubb -n SANDISK
Don't worry to much about the drive geometry error you could get.

We now have to mount ubb.
First create the mountpoint:
sudo mkdir /media/SANDISK
Then mount ubb:
sudo mount -t vfat /dev/ubb /media/SANDISK

[Berns]

STEP 6: Making the actual original MMC copy

Let's have a look to see if we're still good on disk configuration:
sudo lsblk -o NAME,FSTYPE,SIZE,MOUNTPOINT,LABEL

Note: This time, SANDISK is next to UBB (not next to UBB1 as when we labeled it with Windows)

just type this command:
sudo dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=/media/SANDISK/joggler_interal.img bs=10M

Now, wait patiently for the cursor to be next to a prompt again. This can take quite some time (7 minutes approx in my case).

STEP 7: Shutdown the reference machine

Issue command:
sudo shutdown now (I have 4 udevd errors but end up in root@joggler:~# prompt)


STEP 8: copy the joggler_internal.img to the PC

STEP 9: make a gz image from joggler_internal.img and save it as joggler_internal.img.gz using 7zip

STEP 10: Use checksum calculator on the joggler_interal.img.gz and copy the checksum into a text file (using notepad, for example). call the file joggler_internal.img.gz.md5 while saving.

Now we have the IMG.GZ and the MD5 file. Let's give it a go.

STEP 11: Building the reflash stick

We use the "reflash 1.09" image from Roobarb.
We can now re-use the 4GB stick again.

We will require diskimager to write the joggler_reflash_109.img to the stick.

STEP 12: Adding image to the reflash stick
Copy the image from step 9 and the checksum file from step 10 in the reflash folder on the reflash stick
-We have copied the img we created under STEP 5 above and made a gz archive of it in STEP 9
-We have made an md5 file of it as well in STEP 10.

STEP 13: Use the reflash stick to boot the target joggler and wait for the image to be copied

After reflashing has completed, the Joggler will shut down.

STEP 14: Boot into new/restored system
Remove the memory stick from the joggler.
Switch the power off and back on.

As we can see now, the number of apps in both source and target joggler are the same. The procedure for day 2 worked, and we now know that we can replace the internal MMC of a joggler, even with a brand new one if we wanted to.

Oh look, I can now push the shutdown app on both Jogglers
Hooray!!!!

[jim_lewis1]

I would like to try Win 8.1 on the Joggler so I really appreciate your detailed walk through of getting it going. I'll try this in a couple of weeks as I'm away from home right now. Looking forward to the next installments.

[Berns]

Day 3: Backup and restore procedures: Backup and restore of boot system
(I have an unexpected home alone moment this evening and take the time to already execute what has been planned for Day 3.)

First aim is to have the joggler boot into Coreboot/seaBIOS instead of EFI boot.
Then, second aim is to revert back to standard O2 EFI boot (well, sort of)

This procedure will allow us to boot windows 8.1 (I hope) and also to come back to the original system if ever we want to.

The core of this procedure is around a post that I read from Pete, dated Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:33 am, on this forum topic
This post contains a roms.zip file that allows to switch from EFI-boot to coreboot/SeaBIOS and also back.
Go to that post and get the zip file if you didn't do so yet.

What follows is the extended version of the procedure on the same post.

Unzip the attachment and copy the content to USB stick. The content is extremely small so you can utilize one of those old 256Mb sticks or whatever you happen to have around
On the stick you now will find two files in two folders:
-one folder is called JogglerRom, it contains upgrade.rom which is the legacy/original EFI Joggler boot ROM - OpenPeak logo based
-the other folder is called Seabios, it contains coreboot.rom.

STEP 1: replace the EFI-boot with the Coreboot

Copy the coreboot.rom file to the root of the USB stick.
Boot the Joggler
Now put the stick into the joggler

On the joggler:
Run the settings app
Choose Network
Note down the IP address of the joggler (Mine is 192.168.123.85)
Click the home button top right of the screen

On the PC:
Start Putty and fill in the address like so:

Click "Open"
If there is one, on the next error message just click yes
You will now find an interface to a terminal screen of the joggler.
Log in using user-id joggler and password joggler
Then use this sequence of commands

After this, the joggler will be rebooting in a sequence of 60 seconds, trying to find a boot device.

You will now be booting via the coreboot.rom - (v.06 SeaBIOS (version 1.7.0)) - there will be a little icon of a shark on the bottom right hand side of the screen when booting and
prompts for hitting the F7 key or F16 key.
Note that the F16 key is really the F12 key.

seabios.JPG (53.78 KiB) Viewed 11358 times

STEP 2: Replace CoreBoot / Seabios ROM back to original Joggler EFI boot ROM

Note before we start:
The BIOS prompts when rebooting; IE: F7 or F16.
Hitting the F7 (bios upgrade) key on your keyboard will look at the root drive for a file named upgrade.rom.
Pete has named the original attached rom same said name such that you can restore the O2 EFI boot ROM back using this file.

So, to fulfill this action

On the PC:
Make sure there is only one file in the root of the roms memory stick: the one called upgrade.rom

On the Joggler:
-Connect a USB-hub to the external port of the joggler
-Connect a simple USB keyboard to the USB hub (not one with fancy f-key buttons that only activate when one or another key is pressed)
-Also connect the memory stick containing the ROMS to the hub
-Boot the joggler.

The moment you can, hit the F7 button on the keyboard

The system will indicate it had been reading the upgrade successfully and asks to hit a button.
Please hit a button (this is not mandatory but seems not to be bad either)

The process finishes and the system reboots.
Remove the connection to the USB hub to avoid conflicts

Upon reboot you will notice that the splash screen of the 02 now indicates "Openpeak" (in blue) instead of "O2" (in white)
For the remainder the system will operate exactly the same as before, by the looks of things.

[Berns]

STEP 3: putting the O2 logo back (optional)
Finally, if you want a true O2 logo again, that can also be arranged

Using a PC, copy the zipped file below, unzip it and put it in a root of a memory stick
This is how to do it (sorry for this procedure. While the file is extremely small, the forum has trouble receiving it in just one piece from my end):

Copy

o2logo.001.7z

(500 KiB) Downloaded 184 times

to a folder on your PC and rename it to o2logo.7z.001

Copy

o2logo.002.7z

(52.83 KiB) Downloaded 190 times

to the same folder on your PC and rename it to o2logo.7z.002
Open the file with 001 extension using 7zip.
Save the content called o2logo.rom to the root of the memory stick

Note that 7zip will take care of combining the 2 parts of the 7z file into one and making a single extracted file of exactly 1MB.

Put the stick in the booted joggler now.

From the PC, putty into the joggler and issue these commands:

Switch of the power to the joggler
Remove the memory stick
Switch on the power again and - magic - there is your O2 logo again

Following this procedure, we now know we can put a Coreboot/Seabios system on the joggler and also revert it back to its original state.
This is the point where I would say we're safe enough to continue the Windows 8.1 experiments that other people have already conducted.

[Berns]

Day 4: attempting the windows boot

Today we start from a coreboot/SeaBIOS machine. To get such a machine, refer to post from Day 3 above.

This atempt is largely a continuation of work done by others on the forum, that has been mainly discussed on this windows 8.1 forum entry

Work on the PC:
I've asked MickChip to provide us the result of his work, and he's done so for some time.
Please refer to his post of Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:59 pm on that forum item, get the link and download the image.
It is a 8GB image that has been zipped down to under 3GB.

First, unzip it (using 7zip)
Then (using image writer) write it to a memory stick of at least 8GB.

On the Joggler:

So far I've tried these configurations, each time starting from scratch (meaning: re-writing the image before booting the first time, so switching stick/disk between PC and Joggler)

Using a Micro-SD of 32 GB in a usb-adaper:
-Connect a USB hub to the joggler, then connect mouse, keyboard and memory to the hub, boot -> everlasting 8.1 startup screen

-Same but
-interupted procedure removing stick on the fly
-then connected up hub and rebooted -> everlasting 8.1 startup screen
-Connect the memory to the side of the joggler directly -> everlasting 8.1 startup screen

Using a USB drive:
-Connect a USB hub to the joggler, then connect mouse, keyboard and memory to the hub, boot -> everlasting 8.1 startup screen
-Connect the memory to the side of the joggler directly -> everlasting 8.1 startup screen
-Same but
-interupted procedure removing stick on the fly
-then connected up hub and rebooted
-> ran into a problem and need restart screen with : -( logo with an auto - reboot
-> bringing an error screen:

-> pressing enter trying again works
This means that the OS has booted somewhat, and that the keyboard was communicating with the system as well. The system, however, never goes into video interface properly.
-> everlasting 8.1 startup screens

At this point I stopped making the boot disk from the image every time, as I was able to reach the F8 screen with the options consistently.
-Hard Reboot (switch off, switch on) without modification -> direclty producing the error screen again
-> pressing F8
-> Enable safe mode with F4
-> everlasting 8.1 startup screen(no little white bullets this time)
-Hard Reboot (switch off, switch on) without modification -> direclty producing the error screen again
-> pressing F8
-> Enable safe mode with Command Prompt with F6
-> everlasting 8.1 startup screen (no little white bullets this time)
-Hard Reboot (switch off, switch on) without modification -> direclty producing the error screen again
-> pressing F8
-> Enable low-resolution Video with F3
-> everlasting 8.1 startup screen now with little bullets
-> ran into a problem and need restart screen with : -( logo again, restarts automatically
-> scrambled screen

Hard reboot doing the same over again, does not produce errors -> everlasting 8.1 startup screen
Tried ctrl-alt-del to see if anything would happen -> nothing

Hard Reboot again, now waiting longer while looking at white dots that we saw the first time. -> everlasting 8.1 startup screen (for over 2 hours now ...) -> shutting down power

[hawsey]

Great mini blog here Berns sorry to mess it with my post here I had very similar results to yourself and am pleased you are trying go get this going again .:
I even tried an external HDD but still with no luck ,I had a mix between the scrambled and everlasting boot
I did get a copy of DSL live to boot but the keyboard mouse were not recognized ....

Please carry on your experiments .

[pete]

Very nice Berns!

Here I did also as you did with Windows 8.1. Thank-you for your documentation relating to your endeavor.

I have tested Windows 8.1 just a bit differently. It has sat running 24/7 on my Openpeak device for maybe 2 months now.

Here did play with Metro for a period of time on it. I had issues with the display of Metro versus the Openpeak 800X480 display.

The endeavor of running Windows 8.1 for me started from scratch as I wanted to break it then fix it then break it again.

MickChip's Windows 8.1 image worked for me on an SSD stick.

I only utilized the Openpeak machine to test in vivo.

Basically I installed a couple of voice fonts, testing custom made touchscreen interface, remote control applications and that was about it.

Well and Firefox.

The base for the installation of Windows 8.1 that I utilized was:

1 - Openpeak with the other hardware in it. (ZIF PATA connector, microphone, Zigbee and DECT chips in it).
2 - A connected USB keyboard and mouse to internal USB interface (removed afterwards)
3 - A USB connected DVD ROM drive
4 - A 16 GB SSD ZIF connected drive inside
5 - Most recent Microsoft 8.1 ISO downloaded from Microsoft

Booted with Microsoft Windows 8.1 ISO and followed prompts to install.

Boot and reboots were fine. Installed my stuff and all worked fine. I also installed a Wintel Touchscreen application (well a couple of them) and ran those for weeks. Remote control was via the touchscreen application or a secondary running application. (really it was only to shut off the screen at night, remotely reboot and screensaver type stuff). I figured out a way to get the Gb NIC to work just fine with a reboot by installing one realtek driver which appears to work but doesn't then installing the right Realtek network driver. Only thing is that it will only survive a warm boot and not a cold boot.

My personal suggestion (well not sure if it is correct; but it did work for me) is to try what I did mentioned above and see if it works for you.

[mickchip]

Not tried Win8.1 for a while, so just tried my image on a joggler and booted straight away.
This is on the external usb with no hub, it does not seem to boot when using a hub, or atleast not every time.
You do not need a keyboard & mouse as the touchscreen works perfectly with onscreen keyboard.

Also tried the image on my openframe 2 with coreboot/seabios, also booted right up

[pete]

Not sure if it was me or not.

@Mickchip - does the Openframe 2 "seem" a bit faster to you than the Joggler or Openframe 1?

It did to me; but I couldn't really figure out why.

[mickchip]

Another thing you can try if using a usb hub with keyboard & mouse ( when starting windows keep pressing a key, capslock or spacebar ) this can somtimes stop the joggler loosing the
usb connection, which is what's happening when you get the everlasting spinning wheel and then the ( Recovery screen )
Coreboot/seabios is a little flaky with usb.
I have no problems at all when using the Pata port.

Pete
I havn't noticed any speed difference really, only when going from usb to pata port.

[hawsey]

I got the Shark Joggler out of hibernation last night and made a fresh copy of W 8.1 and still no luck for me , I have tried hub , no hub , fast USB stick , external hard drive , also with the wireless card out and the keyboard plugged in its slot and visa versa but still no luck , the same failures as already documented .

What is the DVD ROM method ? Will this boot up like a live image of W8.1 or install it to say my external HDD .I don't understand this method as I have put Windows on to a PC via DVD before but never tried it on the Joggler .

[pete]

What is the DVD ROM method ? Will this boot up like a live image of W8.1 or install it to say my external HDD .I don't understand this method as I have put Windows on to a PC via DVD before but never tried it on the Joggler .

It is using a ZIF PATA SSD drive. I used a 16Gb SSD drive.

You connect the DVD rom to one USB port/ and a keyboard/mouse to the second USB port.

[Berns]

I would like to give this another go.
Hawsey clearly indicates he's been doing virtually the same thing as me. We both ended up with similar results: nothing that satisfies any of us
I must say that trying to re-generate the scrambled screen for the picture was a bit of a trial and error thing. In almost all the cases I end up with an everlasting boot screen from 8.1.

Q0:
Are we sure we're all using the same boot system? I'm using the roms files from Pete dated Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:33 am.
-The splash screen is having only 2 colours: white for text and shark, black for background.
-I noticed that between the boot and the shark splash screen there is a short message with function key mentioning, do you guys also have this phenomenon?

Q1:
What I noticed is that both Pete and MickChip are primarily using an openpeak device. The joggler is smaller and does not have the bottom black plate (under the screen).
Would it be possible that there is a kind of hardware difference between the O2 joggler and the Openpeak that makes the true differnce?

Q2:
MickChip, what kind of ssd drive do you use to boot the joggler from the side USB port?

Q3:
Pete, if I understood well, you hooked up a bunch of hardware to the joggler, booting it from a regular W8.1 install DVD, and doing a regular install, just as if one would install a PC from scratch.
If that is correct: Would it make any sence of doing the same here, but doing everything with a USB hub? (I know you don't like to boot USB from another post, but I would like to not open the joggler)

Q4:
MickChip, how long does it take for your system to boot from the image you provided, at first time boot?
(As you're using an SSD, I should ideally wait like 10x longer before I conclude the boot screen is "ever lasting")

Q5:
MickChip, what happens between the boot screen from W8 (blue windows logo and white dots in circle) and the operational system.
(This is realy a question anticipating some success and trying to make sure the steps between boot and operations are covered)

Awaiting your responses, I'll be grabbing a W8.1 ISO and burn it to a DVD to gear up ...
I'll be back online on this forum in approximately 22 hours and will not have done much more then creating a DVD from an ISO.

Now moving to family business.

[mickchip]

Q0:
Are we sure we're all using the same boot system? I'm using the roms files from Pete dated Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:33 am.
-The splash screen is having only 2 colours: white for text and shark, black for background.
-I noticed that between the boot and the shark splash screen there is a short message with function key mentioning, do you guys also have this phenomenon?
YES exactly the same F7 to flash the bios chip & F16 (should be F12) for boot menu

Q1:
What I noticed is that both Pete and MickChip are primarily using an openpeak device. The joggler is smaller and does not have the bottom black plate (under the screen).
Would it be possible that there is a kind of hardware difference between the O2 joggler and the Openpeak that makes the true differnce?
My image works on both


Q2:
MickChip, what kind of ssd drive do you use to boot the joggler from the side USB port?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KingSpec-U3-M ... =undefined

Q3:
Pete, if I understood well, you hooked up a bunch of hardware to the joggler, booting it from a regular W8.1 install DVD, and doing a regular install, just as if one would install a PC from scratch.
If that is correct: Would it make any sence of doing the same here, but doing everything with a USB hub? (I know you don't like to boot USB from another post, but I would like to not open the joggler)
Will let Pete answer that one

Q4:
MickChip, how long does it take for your system to boot from the image you provided, at first time boot?
(As you're using an SSD, I should ideally wait like 10x longer before I conclude the boot screen is "ever lasting")
Spinning dots about 30 secs then blank screen approx 10 secs & then the login screen

Q5:
MickChip, what happens between the boot screen from W8 (blue windows logo and white dots in circle) and the operational system.
(This is realy a question anticipating some success and trying to make sure the steps between boot and operations are covered)
Answered above, the trouble you are having is with the usb port switching off, it is supposed to happen, for a couple of seconds and then come back on.
trouble is it doesn't always happen. USB implementation in coreboot/seabios is a bit flakey.

[Berns]

Thanks.

I'll be forking my esperiment into two separate things now:
1) Try and boot using the MickChip image, also trying to keep the USB alive with a keyboard as suggested (multiple attempts might be needed.)
2) Start from scratch with an ISO distribution (Downloading now, takes quite some time)
As we might run into a DVD USB drive recognition/boot issue, I found This Link that could help me in such case.
(I've once in the past done something very similar with a 320GB USB hard disk that I'm able to boot W7 from on a regular PC)
That would only be a fall back option.

[mickchip]

To install to & boot windows 8.1 from a USB stick you need to make a Win to Go stick, take a look at this site

http://www.rmprepusb.com/tutorials/win8togo

It's how I made my install as you cannot install Win8.1 directly from DVD to USB
I presume Pete installed on to a drive connected to the pata port.

[pete]

I presume Pete installed on to a drive connected to the pata port.

Yup here did both ways. I liked utilizing the PATA port to SSD via DVD ISO.

I found that the USB SSD stick worked the best for this image rebooting just fine time after time. The USB SSD stick would be plugged in directly using the inside USB port or the side USB port (not a hub).

Really though here was that the Openframe 2 has a battery and saves the time on a cold reboot.

Still though in Wintel; the Gb port drivers will work in a warm boot but not in a cold boot scenario.

Oddest thing is that you load the Realtek drivers that sort of work; then update the NIC drivers with another set of Realtek drivers and you are good to go until a cold boot happens. (this works too on XP too).

It really would be nice though to suspend the device and wake it up. Today just shut off the LCD display at night on the Openframe devices which does work fine. I suspend a few other touchscreen devices at night (well these are built into walls though).

[Berns]

Day 5: Booting Anew AND Attempt to install from original DVD media

Today I first forked into MickChip procedure, and even with a true 128GB SDD USB external cannot get the machine to produce an interface.
Only advantage: Writing to the USB SSD happens about 5x faster in comparison with a memory stick or a regular USB drive.
The result remains the same: everlasting startup screen.

Then, I forked into the procedure provided by Pete.

I manage to boot the device with the install boot DVD, I'm even able to select system language, location and keyboard layout.

At boot I press F12, then I can choose from what boot device to boot.
Even when I connect 4 devices to the usb hub the joggler detects them fine, in order of downward USB port number in the USB hub. (I'm able to connect 4 disks that all get recognised)

So, selecting the DVD disk from the available options, the it says "booting from DVD/CD" then asks to confirm by pressing the all famous "any" key.

People who installed 8.1 from scratch before will see something familiar here. (For me it's the first time)
At start there is a blue windows logo for some time.
Then the circling dots appear (after about 30 secoDnds)
After another 30 seconds all usb lights on the hub are active, while still having circling dots.
Then something scary happens:
-The DVD makes some noise
-The screen goes black
-Then screen shuts off
-Then screen becomes dark blue
(OMG, this machine is going to create a BSOD screen, I think to myself)
Phieuw... what a relief: on next screen, I can select the language, the time/currency format and the keyboard method. Mouse and keyboard are active.

Side note: Being a Flemisch Belgian I fancy English environment, so I select English (Ireland) for Time/Currency and Belgium(Period) for keyboard. This avoids Dutch messages on the screen, but still keeps the currency in Euro. It's a Belgian solution to a problem that some people still don't see-

Clicking Next brings us in the "Install now" screen

Another screen announces that setup is starting - hmm, eurrr, wasn't it started yet then

Again some noise from the DVD

The "I accept licence terms" checkmark with the mouse and the Next with the "Shift-N" (Clicking next is also possible, but then there is no keyboard test on this screen.

Then comes a dilemma. I cannot choose to install windows from scratch. I can only choose to either
Upgrade -> system suggests to run the original OS and launch from there
Custom -> system does not show any drives to install to.
(it is possible from this point to load a driver, and when trying to do so, I can browse the content of all disks that I connected to the device before the boot)

I will have to refer to an ultra important message that I missed from yesterday from MickChip, 8h17 AM, directing me to Win to Go.
Certainly to be continued.....

Well, at least, today, I know I can boot the Joggler from a DVD or CD (does not need to be win 8.1 per say) and that the Coreboot/Seabios is able to detect all my USB devices and disks for me to choose from.