O2 Joggler Forum

You are funny Berns keep going you will get there ....

Good news Bern. You are making progress.

Even when I connect 4 devices to the usb hub the joggler detects them fine, in order of downward USB port number in the USB hub. (I'm able to connect 4 disks that all get recognised)

Do not use a USB hub when doing this install. I also tried with a powered Digi USB hub and it didn't work.

Then something scary happens:
-The DVD makes some noise
-The screen goes black
-Then screen shuts off
-Then screen becomes dark blue

Yup here also powered the DVD externally.

When Win 8.1 is installing or rebooting it will shut off and turn on the USB port (5VDC) which can be a detriment and cause you issues.

In recap I plugged the USB DVD ROM to the external USB port and powered the USB DVD with its own power supply.

Internally I plugged in a wireless dongle for a wireless combination keyboard and mouse.

Then comes a dilemma. I cannot choose to install windows from scratch. I can only choose to either
Upgrade -> system suggests to run the original OS and launch from there
Custom -> system does not show any drives to install to.

The install ISO will only see a PATA ZIF connected SSD drive which is what I used. (nothing else - IE: USB memory stick will not be seen)

Note you should see this drive (ZIF) when you hit the F12 key when first booting.

I then was able to install Windows 8.1 this way.

Hi,

Pete, I'm very bad at soldering, so I don't think a PATA disk is an option. I've read the page of Miles Burton, and motivation is way below zero to do that kind of trickery.

I'm able to control what the USB hub and devices are doing quite well.
It turns out that my ultra old ICYBOX that is holding an IDE DVD reader/writer keeps the USB hub and link to the joggler alive enough all the time, in some kind of way.
(This box also has an own power supply providing power to the DVD drive)

So, Everybody,

The only thing I need is to trick the windows install (be it from a DVD or any other media) into recognising the USB drive I want to install the OS to.
The install procedure is able to read from the disks when I'm trying to look for a driver for the disks to be visible in the partition list where I can install to.

If one would know a good trick to make W8 installer believe my USB drive is actually an internal full featured drive, that would be gigantic.
(I wished I had recorded how I did this for a Windows 7 USB based system some time ago.)

Mickchip, I'm sure you went a certain route to do the windows to go.
-What did you exactly use as an OS to build the stick you booted the joggler with for the first time (I'm using windows 7 home edition)
-Did you use DISM or did you use another way to get the wim file de-imaged to the USB stick?

Over the last day I've experimented a bit.

Using a 32 bit pro version:
1) http://www.rmprepusb.com/tutorials/win8togo and http://www.rmprepusb.com/tutorials/getwaiktools
2) http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msu ... vd_dwnTool
3) http://rufus.akeo.ie/
4) http://www.easyuefi.com/wintousb/
5) http://www.disk-partition.com/download.html, nicely explained on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_OAutcdjJI and http://www.disk-partition.com/lib/wintogo.html?pa

Using a 32 bit enterprise version:
6) http://www.disk-partition.com/download.html

This is what we know so far:
1) First fork of experiments: Using the directly connected disk approach, when I use the "windows to go" functionality, I'm having those extreme boot screens that never end (just as when I use the MickChip image)
1) Second fork of experiments: when I install from install media (either USB memory stick, USB SSD or DVD) the system works well (including touch screen selection on the language/timezone screen), but a few screens later, there is no available disk to install to. Note that the disk(s) is(are) clearly available to the system (I can browse them while looking for drivers)

In a few days I'll be working directly from a W8.1 PC using this procedure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NJfEDQ8D2Y
Even using DISM tool as I will try, I anticipate in the long boot screen that never ends, as this would just be another alternative to the first fork experiments

Still to be continued.

Before I forget: I tried http://www.getusb.info/downloads/lexar_usb_tool.zip but that did not work (did anyone know there is a thing called the "fixed disk bit" that can be switched on some disks/sticks)?

Hi Berns

I used No.1 on your list to make my install, once you have everything it's not to difficult just follow the tutorial

Using a 32 bit pro version:
1) http://www.rmprepusb.com/tutorials/win8togo and http://www.rmprepusb.com/tutorials/getwaiktools

Also
Before I forget: I tried http://www.getusb.info/downloads/lexar_usb_tool.zip but that did not work (did anyone know there is a thing called the "fixed disk bit" that can be switched on some disks/sticks)?

Even if you do flip the bit, Win8.1 still knows it's a USB drive so will not install

MickChip,

Trouble is that when I use the 1 on the list, I end up with a everlasting boot screen just as when I insert your image.
Where is the difference between what you did and what I did? What is the catch?

I've been searching all morning for something that looks like what I had done before to boot and run from USB using windows 7 on a regular machine.
This is more or less what is in line with what I've done:
http://wiki.ucis.nl/Install_Windows_7_o ... USB_device

(I remember, however, that I took some files from the original ISO, edited them and then inserted them back into the ISO)

Is there something similar that can be done on a W8 environment. That is the question now.

I've taken a bit of distance from my computer technology this afternoon.
There might be another way out of this.

The USB-Drive that I used before on a portable to boot externally is one that I can re-use quite easily (I can copy the content to another drive I have)
That USB-Drive, an LG HXD5 320GB can, by the looks of things, be opened fairly easily and contains a standard SATA disk.
I have a bare desktop system at hand and I could boot this machine, installing the first part of the W8 OS on the disk (until it reboots to detect hardware), might result into something workeable.

I'll report back how this went.

Pete, I'm very bad at soldering, so I don't think a PATA disk is an option. I've read the page of Miles Burton, and motivation is way below zero to do that kind of trickery.

Yup; here it started using the kitchen oven. It was done while wife was away from the home. It left a lingering smell of electronics in the kitchen and it was very low on the WAF (wife acceptance factor). That and I am forbidden today of using the kitchen oven and dining table and any kitchen counter tops for my electronic tinkering. This though was a bit easier on the eyes versus bringing car pieces (well carburetors) into the house to service.

I then ventured to the basement (which we really didn't utilize much). "LaCave" turned into my tinkering room and assembled an electronic work bench that I hadn't utilized in some 15 years. I did mangle a few O2's smearing them with metallic solder like snot rags and did make them examples of what not to do when soldering stuff.

So yup playing a bit differently today than a couple of years back. Most of the "playing" has been documented here on the O2 forum at one time or another as the forum is "chock full" of all kinds of information as you have read much of it and posted your findings here Bern; which is a neato thing.

Day 6: Installing on an external host machine

This approach assumes you have some spare technology, in particular a USB hard disk that you are prepared to bin if things fail.
(There are devices available in store that allow you to connect a particular drive to a usb port. This might be a safer option, but I did not have such a device for the disk I had laying around)

For this procedure, besides the Joggler you need:
-A powered USB Hub
-A powered external USB DVD
-A USB drive that holds a classic technology type drive in its casing
-A USB keyboard
-A USB mouse
-A host desktop PC
-A joggler that is prepped to boot with Coreboot/Seabios

Note that it is possible to complete this action without connecting the Joggler to a network via network cable. The network drivers are installed properly during Windows install.

This is how to proceed:
-Document yourself on what USB hard disk device you have, and what disk you will find in it. (My USB 320GB hard disk is a SATA disk with an adapter in the casing)
-Document yourself about the desktop PC you have at hand (The PC I used had a SATA DVD and a SATA hard disk in it.)
-Using a tool like partition manager, remove all partitions from the USB disk. Then make a partition (for example 60GB. As long as it's larger then 32 GB it should work)
-Ply open the USB hard disk casing and remove the disk from it

-Prep the temporary host machine (a desktop PC): just open the case and disconnect all hard disks (make sure to know how to reconnect after this operation). Remove power cord before doing so.
-Connect the disk to the motherboard of the temporary host PC
-Use a windows 8.1 install DVD (can be made from the ISO that you can download, just from a windows 7 working system). Attach power cord again before doing so ... Doh
-Start installing the windows 8.1 environment.
-After you selected basic language settings, agreed to the license agreement, you are presented with the "Install Now" screen.
-Proceed installing by hitting the big button in the middle of the screen.
-Files are being copied. Stay close to your machine and keep an eye on the screen. -When the temporary host PC informs you that it will reboot and starts the reboot countdown, hard shut down the machine (most often keeping the front power button pressed long, until shutdown). Remove the power cord again (This would be an ideal moment to make an image of the install. Suppose you fail, or if there is a serious issue in future, at least you don't have to open cases any more) -Now hook up the Joggler to the hub, connect the hub to disk, dvd, keyboard and mouse
-Remove the W8.1 DVD from the temporary host and insert it into the USB DVD player for the joggler.
-Boot joggler, and press F12. Make sure the DVD is visible, and the disk as well. (If DVD not visible, reboot with ctrl-alt-del and try again. Sometimes, at first boot, my exteral DVD player was not ready for use yet while the joggler was)
-Choose to boot from the hard disk.
-Further installation will now happen, and you will be able to respond to all the questions -At the moment that you can select the wireless network, skip the stage (it will allow you to create a local account instead of a registered Microsoft/Hotmail/outlook/whatever account)
-Just simply proceed with the installation.

During installation further reboots will happen, and screen will be black at some times. Just go with the flow and be patient.

Some Q&A (will be completed):
Q: Can Windows 8.1 run on a Joggler?
A: Yes, and it works quite well

Q: Can I play an mp3 from my network drive right after this install
A: No, because oddly enough, the default MP3 playing application on W8.1 is not compatible with the low resolution 800x480 screen that is created while installing

If one would be able to point me to:
- The correct realtek network card driver (not that it is blocking, because wifi works superfine)
- The correct audio driver (there is a constant squeeki sound when running Windows 8.1 and I hope a correct driver will help)

Congratulations Bern! You did this configuration and means of Windows 8.1 installation for the Joggler 1st right here!

(note that I cheated using a PATA ZIF drive - IE: Kobayashi Maru)

Attached are the files that I use. Note the network (Realtek built in NIC) works and doesn't work.

Joggler GB NIC stuff

1 - put the file on the drive and tell the box to install it. It will grumble saying that it will not work; install it anyways. After you install it it shows up as a valid network connection in the control panel hardware section; but shows that it is disconnected even though you have a cable plugged in.
2 - then install the correct realtek driver (just use the most current one from the Realtek site). It works but doesn't survive a cold boot; just a warm boot. (try the suspend mode and tickle the Joggler; thinking I got it to wake up once; leaving the power plugged in in Windows 8.1).

Joggler sound stuff

1 - I run the original HD MS patch file (which does something - but I do not know what)
2 - Install the audio driver attached

I went to using the VLC stuff (actually use it for both Wintel and Linux these days). Yup that 800X480 Joggler display wrecks havoc with Metro.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j74g98j6n9k4jv7/Archive.zip

This is really great Berns. I have a Samsung Q1U that I want to try this approach on, as well as the Joggler.

However, I have downloaded the Win8.1 install files and have them on a USB stick. In theory this should work inthe same way as a USB attached DVD drive, but we'll see.

Thanks for the detailed step by step.

Hi Jim,
I'm curious to read on your progress. Keep us posted please.
Berns

Yup here have one of those multiOS multiBoot Samsung Q1U. It is a very impressive little machine.

Berns have you tried the NIC drivers and methodologies of implementation I posted relating to the NIC stuff?

Reasons for the NIC issues is that the Seabios stuff never incorporated the NIC stuff. (and there is no battery).

That said another way would be to rewrite the firmware on the Realtek NIC chip which probably will not be happening.

Initially I just used an external USB mounted NIC thing which was only 100Mb. That said it did always survive a warm or cold boot. I like the Gb link better though relating to running Wintel.

Pete,

Sorry for late reply.
I've been busy with some other stuff, and also with re-executing the procedure to make a Win8.1 install (making needed pictures to complete my report from above. Edits will follow soon).
To be honest, I did not touch your archive based NIC approach yet.

I have tried to implement the sound drivers, however, but without any success.
What I noticed with my test joggler is a bit weird:
When I run music on it, you will not hear it. Through the speakers only comes this weird "fizz" noise.
So I thought: let me try to plug in an earphone, to see if the music comes out better from the 3.5mm jack at the back.
No sound in the jack however in such case, BUT ....
When plugging in a headphone into the jack, the "fizz" noise is gone, and I have perfect sound.

Do you guys also have this behaviour right after native W8.1 install?
Are you able to switch from speaker output to jack output and back?
Are you able to produce sound through speaker and jack at the same time?

Note:
The native win 8.1 HD sound driver also discovers the S/PDif interface that sits on the chip. As I did not mod my Joggler to also have an S/PDiff output, I'm not in a position to tell if that interface is "Win8.1 enabled".
(I've seen this HW mod http://www.jogglerwiki.com/wiki/Internal_SPDIF_output live, connected to a 2.1 high quality amp and speaker system, running squeezeplay on the openpeak internal system, and the result was A-MA-ZINGGGG)

I have tried to implement the sound drivers, however, but without any success.
What I noticed with my test joggler is a bit weird:
When I run music on it, you will not hear it. Through the speakers only comes this weird "fizz" noise.
So I thought: let me try to plug in an earphone, to see if the music comes out better from the 3.5mm jack at the back.
No sound in the jack however in such case, BUT ....
When plugging in a headphone into the jack, the "fizz" noise is gone, and I have perfect sound.

I never tested the earphone jack. I was able to play music and had no issues with my Neospeech text to speech fonts.

I did also test my external USB connected "el cheapo" sound card to work just fine.