Best USB stick for Joggler?

Everything relating to hacking, expanding and modifying the Joggler hardware.
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pete
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by pete » Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:46 pm

Hello Buzz,

Here creating a new XBMC boot image from scratch. Started with your base Ubuntu 12.X build and want to install your customized XBMC build. I am currently building it for an 8 Gb SSD stick. That said I will shrink it to say 2Gb for uploading for public consumption.

Direction here is:

I have a distributed audio system called Russound going to some 12 zones. That and I have the ability to utilize some 12 sources for audio. Today I can also remote control an XBMC box (or sqeezebox player) via my automation box such that I can leave the Joggler next to the distributed audio system box and remote it via touchscreens from the automation mothership. I can actually put the Joggler anywhere using audio to cat5e analog cables or optical audio to cat5e cables. For now will leave it next to the Russound distributed audio system as these boxes are on the server rack.

My current steps are:

1 - fat formatted a new 8Gb stick and installed base Ubuntu 12.X ext4 build
2 - installing webmin (cuz I like it?) on said build
3 - updating base build first.
4 - let it update some 92 packages
5 - went to installing XBMC.
Get:1 http://ppa.launchpad.net/jools/joggler/ubuntu/ precise/main xbmc-standalone all 2:11.0~git2012042601.64892a6-0ubuntu1~ppa1~precise [32.3 kB]
Fetched 32.3 kB in 0s (57.8 kB/s)
Selecting previously unselected package xbmc-standalone.
(Reading database ... 65061 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking xbmc-standalone (from .../xbmc-standalone_2%3a11.0~git2012042601.64892a6-0ubuntu1~ppa1~precise_all.deb) ...
Setting up xbmc-standalone (2:11.0~git2012042601.64892a6-0ubuntu1~ppa1~precise) ...
Going slow.....

Currently stuck on sound...I see it but do not hear it....
- Pete

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ilovemyjoggler
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by ilovemyjoggler » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:11 pm

BuZz wrote:I'm pretty happy with the integral usb flash so far. Because I got the 8GB sticks, the write speed is somewhat slow at 5MB/second (or a bit over). Read speed is excellent though - not actually tried them in a USB3 port to check the top read speed, but the packaging claims 80MB/s. It maxes out USB2 anyway, and from booting xubuntu/jolios and using the desktop XBMC it seems to feel snappy enough, and a lot quicker than some previous sticks I have used. They are also nice and small, and feel solid, with a metal case.
BuZz, how are you getting on with the Fusion usb sticks? I need a replacement for my xbmc os - my current usb has always seemed a bit slow but seems to be crawling of late. Do you think it would be ok for the xbmc os? Thanks

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BuZz
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by BuZz » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:06 pm

they seem to be running well here so far.

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hawsey
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by hawsey » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:05 pm

I have the smaller 8gb one of these and it works fine , nice and sleek for the Joggler I just noticed this on Hukd but have no need for another myself at the moment £11.49 for 32gb not bad .

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008 ... g=ho01f-21
Happy Joggling

IndyAudi
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by IndyAudi » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:31 am

hawsey wrote:I have the smaller 8gb one of these and it works fine , nice and sleek for the Joggler I just noticed this on Hukd but have no need for another myself at the moment £11.49 for 32gb not bad .

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008 ... g=ho01f-21
I've just bought two of these for £17.26 and four 16gb (genuine) ones for £20.13 from memory bits - it seems a good deal and if they work well with the joggler, I will be well pleased.

Daniel

http://www.memorybits.co.uk/marketing/1 ... teid=20363

I just hope these are perfectly okay because they look the part.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PufHTriEPsg

mrparp
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by mrparp » Thu May 01, 2014 3:52 pm

Those work fine with a Joggler. I use one since its tiny. Write speed is sluggish, about 5MB/sec, but fine for my use.

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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by Juggler » Tue May 27, 2014 4:34 pm

USB 3 sticks are now at a price that is comparable to USB 2 sticks. Here £2.95 delivered for 8Gb, at time of writing :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00G ... =computers

These are not the fastest USB 3 sticks, but as I understand, it should be faster than the best USB 2 sticks. Well I have bought some of the above and intend on using them on the Joggler. I haven't used a USB 3 stick on the Joggler before, but I would be interested to hear about the best way to compare sticks on the Joggler. Typically I use BuZz's Ubuntu base or XUbuntu, so if there is a good solution for those, that would be nice.

I run Jogglers in an environment, where typically they do very little, but when there is data to capture it is important that it is not missed or dropped. I've found that using Ext4 has helped significantly and is very reliable. I'd like to push the Joggler's a bit more and having a flash drive that can perform better will help, I think. So it would be nice to have some standard way of comparing them, and then I could do some field tests and see how the bench tests compare to those. I think this information would be useful many people here.

I've been using some of the slowest, oldest and most used USB2 sticks on the Jogglers and not had any significant problems. However, I've only had a single input on them and would like to start using multiple inputs.

As an aside, the stick above is not that small. One solution, that may be workable is to use a USB 3 micro SD card reader with a fast micro SD card. Maybe something like these :

http://www.dx.com/p/usb-3-0-micro-sd-tf ... ack-246625

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181413632688? ... =824&kw=lg

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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by Juggler » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:03 pm

I wrote BuZz's Ubuntu 14.04 base to the USB 3 sticks, mentioned above, and first impression was that they were 3 to 4 times faster than the USB 2 sticks I have been using. The performance difference on the Joggler is quite substantial, certainly for my setup. That is, typically, a cheap hub, with the stick plugged in to it, and a keyboard or maybe a keyboard & mouse combo wireless usb dongle.

I had some problems initially with the shutdown of 14.04, but I think there is an issue using the shutdown command. I now use poweroff or reboot and there isn't an isn't any problems, b ut it may have just been the distro 'bedding in'. I'm not sure and I didn't look at it in great detail. I remember something similar happening with 12.04, but that seemed to go away as well. I have done a few updates with 14.04 base installed and as far as I can tell everything is ok.

Tonight, I had a look into how to get some more defined data on the performance difference of the USB flash drives I am using. Some articles I found of interest are :

https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/i ... 712AAGZSsY
http://www.everythingusb.com/hi-speed-usb.html
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2084339
http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/index ... -on-linux/
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1900666

As the flash drives I tested had distros on them that I did not want to lose, all I have looked at so far is a way of testing the read speed.

Seems that the following command is one way of doing that :

hdparm -tT /dev/ub(x)(y) - where x is the device number and y is the partition number. So with a single usb flash drive in and using ubuntu base you would probably issue the command :

hdparm -tT /dev/uba3

It seems that the second reading you get (buffered?) is probably the most reliable. Just off the top of my head, for my cheapest, nastiest usb 2 old flash drive scored 5 Mb/s. One of my latest cheap Lexar USB 2 flash drives scored 15 Mb/s. And the latest USB 3 flash drives, mentioned above, scored a read speed of 25 Mb/s.

Now I don't know at the moment if this is the best way to evaluate the read speed of flash drives, but it does appear to give some indication of the performance. From the research above, it is stated that a typical maximum for USB 2 flash drive read is around 33 Mb/s and write of 28 Mb/s. I haven't tested write speed yet, but hope to do so. The first experience of the USB 3 flash drive being 3 to 4 times faster may have been a perceived improvement rather than actual. But it really makes a difference.

To be more accurate I understand that the USB controller in the Joggler is a factor - not all USB controllers are the same. Also it matters what you have the USB flash drive plugged in to. So if you had a USB 3 flash drive plugged in to the internal USB port, it may be faster than having it in an external USB hub. The controller in the USB hub and other devices plugged in to the USB hub can also be a factor in the performance of the USB flash drive, so I understand.

If you have tested the performance of USB flash drives on the Joggler, it would be good to compare notes !

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hawsey
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by hawsey » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:48 pm

Hi Juggler , I have been wondering exactly the same thing with regards to read / write speeds of sticks used for distros on the joggler .
Glad to hear your USB 3 success , I will have to invest in one myself .
Recently trying to get Plex server PMS to work right I have become increasingly frustrated with builds grinding to a halt and being unworkable :-/
Much like you I read up on USB stick speed testers but gave up as the first one I tried was taking hours to test .
Anyone using a good quick USB stick performance tester ?
Happy Joggling

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BuZz
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by BuZz » Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:00 am

could install iozone3 on linux (apt-get install iozone3) on the joggler and use that - http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2011/05/iozone-examples/

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pete
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by pete » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:56 pm

Here is my stuff / info.
Disk /dev/sda: 16.4 GB, 16391208960 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 1992 cylinders, total 32014080 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x0006fc82

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 2048 126975 62464 e W95 FAT16 (LBA)
/dev/sda2 126976 626687 249856 82 Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda3 626688 32012287 15692800 83 Linux

Disk /dev/mmcblk0: 1028 MB, 1028128768 bytes
4 heads, 16 sectors/track, 31376 cylinders, total 2008064 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00065065

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/mmcblk0p1 * 16 125055 62520 ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32)
/dev/mmcblk0p2 125056 625151 250048 83 Linux
/dev/mmcblk0p4 626688 2007039 690176 83 Linux

Disk /dev/uba: 7996 MB, 7996538880 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 972 cylinders, total 15618240 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x000e8631
root@joggler:/etc# hdparm -tT /dev/mmcblk0p4

/dev/mmcblk0p4:
Timing cached reads: 940 MB in 2.00 seconds = 470.01 MB/sec
Timing buffered disk reads: 48 MB in 3.05 seconds = 15.74 MB/sec
root@joggler:/etc#

root@joggler:/etc# hdparm -tT /dev/sda3

/dev/sda3:
Timing cached reads: 980 MB in 2.00 seconds = 489.79 MB/sec
Timing buffered disk reads: 84 MB in 3.06 seconds = 27.46 MB/sec

root@joggler:/etc# hdparm -tT /dev/uba3

/dev/uba3:
Timing cached reads: 948 MB in 2.00 seconds = 474.13 MB/sec
Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 3.01 seconds = 21.24 MB/sec
root@joggler:/etc#
- Pete

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hawsey
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by hawsey » Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:35 pm

BuZz wrote:could install iozone3 on linux (apt-get install iozone3) on the joggler and use that - http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2011/05/iozone-examples/
Thanks BuZz :-)
Happy Joggling

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BuZz
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by BuZz » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:37 am

Turns out the USB3.0 Integral Fusion stick I bought is really not very good for running a distro off. Despite the fast read speed, performance is very poor, I suspect it reads/writes larger blocks, so small amounts of random IO doesn't play nice with it. It also runs very hot!

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hawsey
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by hawsey » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:15 pm

I was going to get a USB 3 stick to try for my Jogglers too BuZz :-(
I get confused about the best method to use for quickest performance and even tried an external HDD but running the os and my media off the same device gave me problems .
I have read on a thread here a good method was to remove the wireless card and and boot say xUbuntu off that and then have one of those tiny wireless USB dongles in the side of the Joggler which Linux will recognise .
Anybody doing this / how responsive do you find it ?
Happy Joggling

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pete
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by pete » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:34 pm

The oldest O2 Jogglers here all had a second internal USB port. I soldered wires from the motherboard to a miniUSB cable and added a second external USB port on the back of the Joggler (for use with whatever). Eventually though migrated to using the ZIF pata port from this methodology.

I went to booting using that port and a USB to ZIF card plus ZIF SSD which fit fine where the wireless USB stick was. I taped the ZIF USB card to the ZIF SSD card and they fit fine where the original USB WLAN card was. Over time (> 1 year) the mini USB port has fallen off the ZIF to USB card on about 3 of these devices. I have seen the same thing happen with other hardware with mini USB ports on it (IE: test GPS for example).

I then took the internal USB port out for either a wireless NIC or wired NIC.

That also worked fine. Here I have one with that setup plus an audio USB output.

I have tested with those little tiny USB sticks and larger ones with antennas and they worked fine. (Asus)

Image

http://www.asus.com/us/Networking/USBAC51/

Image

http://www.asus.com/us/Networking/USBAC56/

USB to ZIF card

Image

16Gb ZIF card

Image
- Pete

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hawsey
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by hawsey » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:29 pm

What do you find the quickest for an os Pete ? The Zif ?
Happy Joggling

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pete
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by pete » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:42 pm

Speedwise from slower to faster was:

1 - Kingspec USB SSD (have to remove the casing to use it in the Joggler).
2 - USB to USB-ZIF to ZIF SSD (here I have lost 3 of these due to heat making the mini USB port fall off).
3 - PATA ZIF connected SSD

The Kingspec SSD is sort of big such that I had to remove it from the casing to fit inside of the Joggler. I only have lost one of the Kingspec USB SSDs since initial purchase (> 10 purchased).

I have too lost one ZIF SSD to day (>10 purchased).

Goofing a bit with Buzz's Linux build I have today one USB 8Gb SSD and a PATA ZIF 16Gb SSD in one Joggler and both run fine together.

Just noticed the above SSD ZIF has a mini USB port on it. I have never seen one like this before. The ZIF SSD drives that I have just have the ZIF connector on them. (I was in a rush and just did a quickie google image search earlier)

There is a lot of room there (where the WLAN stick was) on that side of the Joggler. I did trim a bit of the plastic underneath the original USB wireless stick for more room for more stuff.
- Pete

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hawsey
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by hawsey » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:26 pm

Thanks for that Pete ( just realised i hadn't replied !) i think i will try some of your Zif / SSD solutions at some point , for now just using what i have lying around for cost reasons :-)

Using on W7 a USB speed test utility called SpeedOut ,i have just been through my USB sticks to find a suitable candidate for my PMS project , results below .

Brand Read Speed Write Speed

TDK 19.1 / 4.8
Bt generic 7 / 4.8
PLAY.com 31.12 / 10.6
Freebie 21.3 / 8.2
HP 14.7 / 8.2

Also tested some sd and micro sd

TDK 10 / 3.3
13.4 / 6.8

Sandisk 14.8 / 4.07

And the winner is my trusty old Play.com 16Gb usb stick and by a long way , so i will use that for the minute
Happy Joggling

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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by Juggler » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:51 pm

No much of a reply - there is more that I would like to share as I spent quite a bit of time on this.

Anyway, a good tool, to try is this :

http://www.roylongbottom.org.uk/linux_d ... hmarks.htm

I've used this a few times on some of the drives I have and it seems to be good at doing a good variety of tests and producing some consistent results.

The area I branched off to was the controllers on the USB flash drives. I need to find my notes, but basically some flash drives actually have SSD (or such) controllers on them, and that contributes to much better performance for some flash drives over others.

The USB3 Kingston DataTraveler flash drives I have been using seem to perform very well. Also the file system used on flash drives plays a significant factor also. I found a comparison table, but need to find my notes..

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roobarb!
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Re: Best USB stick for Joggler?

Post by roobarb! » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:21 pm

Just my 2p here - I've recently been playing with SanDisk Extreme USB 3.0 sticks. They're brilliant and OpenFrames boot from them just fine.

Obviously the Joggler doesn't have USB 3.0, but the quality of the flash memory in these sticks is really first rate. The 16GB ones will do 250MB/s read and 50MB/s write - the 32GB one does the same but with 100MB/s writes. Over USB 2.0 this translates to around 40MB/s both ways.

I'll have to run some speed tests on the Joggler itself, but things run brilliantly - particularly reading the database from Logitech Media Server. Plus you can get the 16GB version for about £10 on eBay these days.

The only down side is that they're not small. But they do fit internally (just!) if that's your thing. Also, check the ratings - some older versions are a tad slower, particularly on the read speeds.
birdslikewires.uk - home of the Reflash System, SqueezePlay (OS) and various tools for the Joggler!

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