Alternative power supplies

Everything relating to hacking, expanding and modifying the Joggler hardware.
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Juggler
Posts: 234
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:34 am

Alternative power supplies

Post by Juggler » Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:17 pm

I have a few of the betting shop jogglers so am in need of power supplies. I've seen the prices being asked for supplies that are comparable to the original open peak, and they are somewhat expensive, I think. For what I'd like to use a Joggler for the current that should be drawn, should not exceed 1.5A.

I have now got some parts to convert supplies that provide 5V and up to 2A. I will share the results later, and also to run 2 jogglers from 1 open peak supply.

One supply I have provides 5.5V at around 1.5A to 2A. I'm wondering that if the Joggler draws 1 to 1.3A, say, maybe the voltage will drop sufficiently to make it ok for the Joggler, being slightly over voltage. I've had a quick search here and haven't found any thing like this, just what happens when you give the Joggler 19V - i.e. accidentally plug in a laptop power supply.

I've tested both an original open peak power supply and this 5.5v stated power supply without load and the OP supply is around 5.2V and the other around 5.65V.

Can anyone explain the Jogglers over-voltage protection ? I've seen reference to fuses blowing; fuses which can not be reset. I'd prefer not to do that. I know some devices accept slight over-volting and can have desirable results.

If you need any further info from me, I'm happy to provide if I can. Also if you've any comments generally on this, would be good to hear those.

I think I will try to source some good, cheap supplies as well. There must be some good ones around that are comparable to the open peak supplies and only a few £/$/Euros. I have a bag of barrel plugs that fit the joggler, so it doesn't really matter what plug, if any, is on the supply.

cbredfred
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:22 am

Re: Alternative power supplies

Post by cbredfred » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:34 am

Hi Juggler,

Just a couple of quick thoughts...

I don't know anything about the Jogglers input over voltage protection, so can't shed any light on that but I'd be surprised if it couldn't handle 5.645v.
It occurs to me that your extra 0.65v is very nearly the 0.7v that a silicon diode drops when forward biased. If you have the skills to graft one into the cable so that it is in series with the Joggler then you'd be close to bang on your 5v. You just need to make sure you get a diode that is spec'd to handle all the current you expect the power supply to provide.

As for alternative PSU's, I like the Phihong brand. I now own 20 of them of various voltages, current ratings, and output plug sizes. They come as standard with lots of Linksys kit from the past and even BlackBerry used them for a time. I've never had one fail. A lot of them come with changeable AC plugs that slide on and off which is important to me because I have been known to move countries in the past and it makes it a shit load easier! :-) RS sells the AC plugs separately if you happen to buy a PSU from ebay and the UK plug isn't provided. They are not cheap but they are a quality made bit of kit. The PSM11R-050 model is 5v 2A and even has the correct sized plug on it. Linksys and Logitech used to put their own name on the Phihong supplies.

Really any 5V 2Amp+ power supply with a 5.5 x 2.1mm plug should do the job.

Another thought...have you noticed all those USB wall chargers that seem to be taking over the world...nice 5v 2A (for tablets) PSU's that are everywhere? :-)
Stick one of these cables in the USB socket for 99p and you are off to the races: http://www.amazon.co.uk/niceeshop-Barre ... 00JVIIYQY/

Last thought, don't forget any load you might but on the Jogglers side USB port when you are thinking about PSU's. USB 2.0 is spec'd at 5 unit loads (unit = 100mA) so make sure you take in to account an extra 500mA on top of what you think the Joggler it's self will need.


P.S. Disclaimer...everything written above could be a load of old cobblers, so make sure you are willing to except all responsibility for letting the magic smoke out before trying any of my ideas. :-)

Juggler
Posts: 234
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:34 am

Re: Alternative power supplies

Post by Juggler » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:35 pm

cbredfred wrote:Hi Juggler,

Just a couple of quick thoughts...

I don't know anything about the Jogglers input over voltage protection, so can't shed any light on that but I'd be surprised if it couldn't handle 5.645v.
It occurs to me that your extra 0.65v is very nearly the 0.7v that a silicon diode drops when forward biased. If you have the skills to graft one into the cable so that it is in series with the Joggler then you'd be close to bang on your 5v. You just need to make sure you get a diode that is spec'd to handle all the current you expect the power supply to provide.

As for alternative PSU's, I like the Phihong brand. I now own 20 of them of various voltages, current ratings, and output plug sizes. They come as standard with lots of Linksys kit from the past and even BlackBerry used them for a time. I've never had one fail. A lot of them come with changeable AC plugs that slide on and off which is important to me because I have been known to move countries in the past and it makes it a shit load easier! :-) RS sells the AC plugs separately if you happen to buy a PSU from ebay and the UK plug isn't provided. They are not cheap but they are a quality made bit of kit. The PSM11R-050 model is 5v 2A and even has the correct sized plug on it. Linksys and Logitech used to put their own name on the Phihong supplies.

Really any 5V 2Amp+ power supply with a 5.5 x 2.1mm plug should do the job.

Another thought...have you noticed all those USB wall chargers that seem to be taking over the world...nice 5v 2A (for tablets) PSU's that are everywhere? :-)
Stick one of these cables in the USB socket for 99p and you are off to the races: http://www.amazon.co.uk/niceeshop-Barre ... 00JVIIYQY/

Last thought, don't forget any load you might but on the Jogglers side USB port when you are thinking about PSU's. USB 2.0 is spec'd at 5 unit loads (unit = 100mA) so make sure you take in to account an extra 500mA on top of what you think the Joggler it's self will need.


P.S. Disclaimer...everything written above could be a load of old cobblers, so make sure you are willing to except all responsibility for letting the magic smoke out before trying any of my ideas. :-)
Hi cbredfred and thanks very much for the reply.

Some good info there ! Not been on here for some time, so apologies for the gap...

Using a diode is a good idea and I get some free stupidity protection too ! I'll see if I can find one good enough for the job and will give it a try.

I'll have a look at the Phihong brand supplies. I'm hoping I can use some of the supplies I have hanging around, but they may not be good enough or last long enough if supplying over current for too long. The prices asked for openpeak or similar supplies just seems way more than it should be.

I bought a load of barrel plugs and also usb plugs and sockets from aliexpress, so I just need to get my tools out and try it out. This will be a good project as I am also looking at making a UPS for the joggler too, so having a good supply will get me some of the way there.

Just wondering if the cb in cbredfred is for "Citizens Band" ?

Thanks for the info.

Cheers

Man in a van
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:39 pm
Location: Staffordshire. UK

Re: Alternative power supplies

Post by Man in a van » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:46 pm

Well here's my five pence worth.

I have tried several of the 'phone charger battery packs (rated between 2 and 2.5 amps) and not one of them has worked, just a white screen at start up.

Any power supply rated at 4amps is a winner, I currently (get it?) have a couple of Mean Well supplies.

Would welcome your feedback.

atb

Ronnie.

Juggler
Posts: 234
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:34 am

Re: Alternative power supplies

Post by Juggler » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:09 pm

Man in a van wrote:Well here's my five pence worth.

I have tried several of the 'phone charger battery packs (rated between 2 and 2.5 amps) and not one of them has worked, just a white screen at start up.

Any power supply rated at 4amps is a winner, I currently (get it?) have a couple of Mean Well supplies.

Would welcome your feedback.

atb

Ronnie.
Interesting, as that is the type of supply I was hoping I could use.

I wonder what the voltage across the supply is when you power the Joggler ? Maybe if the supply is at the top-end of what it can supply and the voltage drops, the Joggler won't boot. I've seen the white screen before, when plugging in a rubbish powered USB hub, which allows power to flow into the device the hub is plugged into, and not having the Joggler's own power supply on.

I've measured the current a Joggler uses with no attached devices and being powered by an openpeak 5V 4A supply and it is in the range of 1 to 1.5 Amps. I think I will measure this again, just to be safe, as I may be writing rubbish here...

Man in a van
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:39 pm
Location: Staffordshire. UK

Re: Alternative power supplies

Post by Man in a van » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:15 pm

I have alway just thought that it is something to do with the initial surge when starting up.

This is just a layman here, can change a fuse justabout.

atb

ronnie.

Juggler
Posts: 234
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:34 am

Re: Alternative power supplies

Post by Juggler » Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:07 pm

Man in a van wrote:I have alway just thought that it is something to do with the initial surge when starting up.

This is just a layman here, can change a fuse justabout.

atb

ronnie.

Startup will require more current than when the Joggler is booted and fairly idle. If, say, a 2A top rated supply is used - and this is a high capacity for phone or even a tablet charger - and the Joggler draws 1.8 or more Amps at boot then the supplies voltage may drop more then the Joggler will boot with. Hence strange behaviour at boot - white screens, crashes hangs.

I really need to start playing with this and stop moving onto other things. Need to check my meter to see if it will remember min and max readings, so I can see the top current drawn on a Joggler at boot. This is important to know as I have more control over the current that is drawn after boot. During boot and with no or minimal devices attached, I'm at the mercy of what the Joggler wants.

A fuse I don't want to change is the Jogglers. They are smaller than a mosquito's freckle ! So playing with power supplies could be joggler Russian roulette !

Man in a van
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:39 pm
Location: Staffordshire. UK

Re: Alternative power supplies

Post by Man in a van » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:41 am

Juggler wrote:
Man in a van wrote:I have alway just thought that it is something to do with the initial surge when starting up.

This is just a layman here, can change a fuse justabout.

atb

ronnie.

Startup will require more current than when the Joggler is booted and fairly idle. If, say, a 2A top rated supply is used - and this is a high capacity for phone or even a tablet charger - and the Joggler draws 1.8 or more Amps at boot then the supplies voltage may drop more then the Joggler will boot with. Hence strange behaviour at boot - white screens, crashes hangs.

I really need to start playing with this and stop moving onto other things. Need to check my meter to see if it will remember min and max readings, so I can see the top current drawn on a Joggler at boot. This is important to know as I have more control over the current that is drawn after boot. During boot and with no or minimal devices attached, I'm at the mercy of what the Joggler wants.

A fuse I don't want to change is the Jogglers. They are smaller than a mosquito's freckle ! So playing with power supplies could be joggler Russian roulette !


Have you told Chris Packham about this, surely he should know ;)

Juggler
Posts: 234
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:34 am

Re: Alternative power supplies

Post by Juggler » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:36 pm

Chris Packham would probably tell me that mosquitoes don't have freckles. Originally it wasn't a freckle, but I did a PC (the other one) edit ! New celebrity to me, but Wikipedia is my saviour :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Packham

Interesting views on world population... and obviously enjoyed the (?alternative?) music of the 70's and 80's too.

Anyway, I reckon I can play with the fuse devil, and get away with alternative power supplies, so long as they are not too over voltage.

My super cheap digital meter doesn't remember min and max readings, so I started to think how to do this, because as you have stated, start-up is when there is a greater draw of current. I thought about using an arduino, and, other people have done this :

Measuring Current with the Arduino
http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/arduino/current/current.htm
Measuring Current/Voltage with arduino ?
http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=6378.0
How to build an arduino energy monitor - measuring current only | OpenEnergyMonitor
http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/build ... rrent-only

Would be great to monitor Joggler current draw and then have the arduino signal the joggler when a threshold is met so that the joggler can capture useful data. Could be a useful way of finding the power leeches. And there I go again - need to just see if I can get some abandoned power supply running my joggler...

jim_lewis1
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:44 pm

Re: Alternative power supplies

Post by jim_lewis1 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:29 pm

just a quick fyi.

if measuring usb voltage/current is of interest these are available:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Power-Charg ... 1231579436

probably not too tricky to put one inline to your joggler power supply

joggly
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:59 pm

Re: Alternative power supplies

Post by joggly » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:33 am

For future ref if someone finds this page googling:

I bought 5V 4A Power Adapter from HK based ebay seller. Ordered on 30th March and received yesterday on 7th. Impressive delivery time and finally to boot another joggler. All for £2.89 ;)

First the barrel plug size. Our joggler is 5.5 x 2.1 mm and the adapter plug itself is 2.5mm. The listing does says it will fit 2.1 but I found it to be very loose. The cable length is less than a metre long. I've ordered an adapter CCTV 2.5mm female to 2.1mm male plug for £1.81 from uk based ebay seller. Until it arrives I've taped the cables and adapter to restrict any movement. I'll update afterwards.

The good news...it does work. I've already installed original O2 software and will later planning to install squeezeplay OS. I don't have any equipment to test if amps output but for joggler it seems to provide enough juice to boot and reflash. For what I understand the most important thing to look into power supply is Voltage which should match the original (5V). Amp need to be at least 4A and it is ok with higher amp as components will only draw what will be needed.

To conclude, replacement power supply less than £5 :D

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pete
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Re: Alternative power supplies

Post by pete » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:33 pm

Just an FYI relating to the power supply Joggler plug.

Here over the last few years have noticed that the plug gets loosey goosey. Signs of this are when you move the power plug or Joggler and it disconnects itself.

That is because the power plug, NIC, Audio plug are on a board which slides in and is hot melt glued to the back of the joggler. Here I have done a short burst of heat with a heat gun with a tiny nozzle remelting the hot melt glue or just added more hot melt glue. Be careful doing this cuz it can melt the plastic too.
- Pete

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