joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Everything relating to hacking, expanding and modifying the Joggler hardware.
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Wayne C
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joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by Wayne C » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:43 pm

I'm new to the forum and installed the birds love wires Squeezplay software onto the flash drive this afternoon, I have a USB to spdif adaptor called a hiface 2 and was hoping that I could transfer the audio out via the USB socket to my dac. I have enabled external audio out In Audio set, the speaker mutes but no sound is being transferred to my dac?, is it possible please to send audio out via USB on the joggler.

Any advice appreciated .

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JimbobVFR400
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Re: joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by JimbobVFR400 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:53 pm

There is a mod for the squeezebox touch called EDO (enhanced digital output) that has been ported to the joggler. In theory that should do the trick, possibly maybe....

http://www.jogglerwiki.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=740

gegs
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Re: joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by gegs » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:13 am

Wayne C wrote:I'm new to the forum and installed the birds love wires Squeezplay software onto the flash drive this afternoon, I have a USB to spdif adaptor called a hiface 2 and was hoping that I could transfer the audio out via the USB socket to my dac. I have enabled external audio out In Audio set, the speaker mutes but no sound is being transferred to my dac?, is it possible please to send audio out via USB on the joggler.

Any advice appreciated .
I'll assume that you rebooted after changing the sound interface.

USB sound works for me with the Behringer UCA202 with optical S/PDIF but I'm not sure about the hiface 2 with Coax. The hiface 2 manual says it should be plug and play compatible with any linux system with ALSA. It also requires 5V from the USB port according to the data sheet and it's questionable whether all Jogglers deliver this. A 5V output should, in theory, power external portable hard drives but personal experience has shown me that not all portable disks will run properly when attached to the Joggler.

I'm not sure what effect it will have on sound quality but, for test purposes if nothing else, try a powered hub between the Joggler and hiface 2 to see if it kicks into life.

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Mevi
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Re: joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by Mevi » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:39 am

I was also going to ask if you were using an unpowered hub. ;)
I've Got The Moves Like Joggler

Windows XP Professional SP3 plus Tablet PC for O2 Joggler
http://www.jogglerwiki.com/forum/viewto ... ?f=2&t=305

How to build your own Windows XP for the Joggler
http://www.jogglerwiki.com/wiki/WindowsXP

Algo
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Re: joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by Algo » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:43 am

Hi, as a forum newbie, I've been lurking and learning.
Here's how I did it:
I installed SPOS (Birdslikewires - fantastic bit of work by the way!!!) internally and then, following instructions on this forum, removed as much as possible.
This gave me a system which with LMS installed and a library of 500+ albums catalogued, still leaves me headroom of about >280 MB.

I then bought a USB DAC http://hifimediy.com/index.php?route=pr ... duct_id=83 and pried it out of it's case.
The USB plug was cut off leaving enough wire to make connections as shown here http://www.jogglerwiki.com/wiki/Additional_USB_Ports, using TP137 & 8.
The Joggler then had a speaker surgically removed (as in ripped out). This made room for two RCA sockets which were then soldered to the output solder pads on DAC.
I covered the DAC with Kapton tape, put it in place with a dribble of hot melt glue, closed the Joggler, set up external sound option - rebooted - and Hey Presto!
I now have Joggler that plays 24/96, reads and plays Hi Def audio files from a USB disk attached to a £17 USB NAS, is much more responsive than my Squeezebox Touch, ...AND sounds brilliant!!!
Next step: USB SSD :D
Thanks to all who made this easy and fun .

Alistair

* see how: http://www.jogglerwiki.com/wiki/Interna ... to_RCA_out
Last edited by Algo on Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fattybacon
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Re: joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by fattybacon » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:13 pm

@Algo any chance of some pics of the finished project? I've got the same USB DAC and was considering just taping it to the back of the Joggler. Now I'd feel like a hobo doing that after seeing what you've achieved.

Algo
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Re: joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by Algo » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:57 am

Hi All,
@fattybacon:
http://www.jogglerwiki.com/wiki/Interna ... to_RCA_out

Hope this is useful!
Cheers.

Olivaar
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Re: joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by Olivaar » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:35 pm

one question about the additional used dac's seen here in the forum (Sabre here, and behringer also in this forum).
the internal soundchip of the joggler can allready play 24/192.
is it possible to get this out with the integrated phone connector or maybe like in this example here with additional mounted RCA-jacks?
I checked the Datasheet of the STAC9202 http://www.idt.com/document/dst/stac920 ... 92hd81-sta
in my opinion, it must be possible.

Algo
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Re: joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by Algo » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:56 pm

Hi Olivaar,
Interesting..
Are you saying that the on-board DAC converts to, or is capable of delivering audio > speaker out at 24/192 quality?
Or, is it just that the sound chip can handle 24/192 .... in which case we still need a hi-res capable USB DAC...

I have tried lobbing 24/192 files at the joggler with no result, but that might be the server or the DAC acting up.
Reckon I'll have to remove a DAC and see what it does, as I can't remember how the Joggler worked before
Will post results soon.

A.

** Just found this on fleabay: MUSE 24Bit 192Khz Mini USB DAC £43 - (as much as I paid for my Sabre DAC + postage) and saves hacking.

Algo
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Re: joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by Algo » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:14 pm

Olivaar:
Just checked out some of the Datasheet (only got as far as P.50).
Although it does mention 192, it seems only as input (or am I being dim?).
Then:
3.2. SPDIF Output
SPDIF_OUT can operate at 44.1 KHz, 48 KHz, 88.2 KHz and 96 KHz as defined in the Intel High
Definition Audio Specification with resolutions up to 24 bits. This insures compatibility with all consumer
audio gear and allows for convenient integration into home theater systems and media center
PCs.
All well and good, but Pin 48 is still only outputting 82.2KHz.

Further on it says:
Port B Pin Widget (Pins 21/22, configurable as Line Out, Mic)
Reading further, I'm guessing that both the SPDIF out and/or the Line out would have to have their state set by addressing the appropriate registers/address spaces on the chip.
I don't have that kind of voodoo, but I'll try and scope output on pins 21/22 and see what is doing there.

There may still be the possibility that an asynchronous USB DAC could work without any hacking: the 24/96 Sabre does.

I'll post any progress tomorrow.
A.

Olivaar
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Re: joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by Olivaar » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:50 pm

ok some more to cite:

the capabilities of the adc and the dac are mentioned at the page 1 (right side) / page 10:
The STAC9202 provides stereo, 24-bit, full duplex resolution supporting sample rates up to 192 KHz by the DAC
and ADC. The STAC9202 SPDIF In/Out support sample
rates of 96 KHz, 48 KHz and 44.1 KHz plus SPDIF_OUT
supports 88.2 KHz. Additional sample rates are supported
by the driver software.
i interprete this as:
analog in/out: up to 192KHz
digital in/out:96,48,44.1 KHz
digital out: 88.2 KHz

the chips has 4 configurable analog ports (see at page 18 "FUNCTIONAL BLOCK DIAGRAM", Port A,B,C,D)
All analog I/O pairs support LINE_IN, LINE_OUT and MIC.

Page 1/right side / last sentence
The STAC9202 integrates a headphone amplifier which is available on Ports A and D. The headphone amplifier is switchable between these two outputs for increased flexibility, enhanced userexperience, and reduced implementation costs.

Page 9


i think the speakers of the joggler is actually connected to Port D ([Jack] Line Out at Ext Rear)
the phone connector at the back connected to Port A ([Jack] HP Out at Ext Front)
(look at this wikipage with the alsa-stats and search for "Node 0x0a" and "Node 0x0d" http://www.jogglerwiki.com/wiki/Alsa)
please can anybody check if the rear and front attributes of the alsa-status are wrong or correct?
or maybe the headphone amp is used as the speakers amp? have the speakers an own amp?

problem:
the output for the phone connector is configured with enabled headphone amp, this should be disabled or maybe configurable to enhance the sound
i tried to reconfigure the port with the following tool: hda-jack-retask without success, maybe in the sound driver is something hardcode, but this i dont know exactly.
http://web.archive.org/web/201302022330 ... hone-jack/ (sorry the original url is at the moment empty)

the sound is maybe allready in high quality, but the enabled headphone amp reduce the analog quality.
additional the phone connector should replaced by a RCA-Connector (in Europe named Cinch) to reduce the quality loss.
at home i have connected the joggler with a phone- to rca adaptor and the sound is OK http://www.woodbrass.com/images/MEDIUM/ ... NCH+3M.JPG

Berns
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Re: joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by Berns » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:06 pm

Hi,

I have 2 questions, subsequent an experiment I've run over the week-end:

Q1): Has anyone ever tried to connect the O2 joggler to Audioengine A2+ speakers via usb
(meaning: using a USB cable between the joggler and the USB input of the speakers, thus using the speakers' TI/Burr Brown PCM2704C DAC)

The experiment confirmed me that the only USB DAC I have laying around, that is quite exotic for the purpose, seems to be compatible.
(By extension: Is there maybe somewhere a USB based DAC compatibility list?)

The experiment below.

Q2) Another, maybe more flexible and cheaper option, could be to use Bluetooth speakers. Anybody had success in fitting a USB Bluetooth A2DP compliant dongle?
(There is a post where someone replaced the original internal WLAN with a WLAN/Bluetooth version. What card was used? Did that yield Bluetooth sound connectivity over A2DP as well? Was the audio OK?)

Kind regards,
Berns

For you fellows that want to know, here is a detailed report of week-end experiment.
What you need:
A 220V power bar with switch
Belkin F5U237 7 port powered USB hub
Creative labs SB0490 USB sound blaster live (takes power from the Belkin)
Earbuds (or other sound output device)
O2 Joggler

The joggler I bought second hand quite some time ago was running OF1_30300 openpeak enhanced with PNPIII out of the box.
I have a USB stick running Squeezeplay OS as well

Both little tests costed me nothing but a bit of time (as all the equipment was laying around catching dust)

1st test:
-Connect joggler to powerbar
-Connect hub to power bar
-Connect hub to joggler
-Connect sound blaster to hub
-Ensure powerbar is off
-Connect powerbar to mains
-Hit the powerbar on button

After booting, run Squeezeplay from the joggler for the first time (it plays audio through the joggler speakers)
Go into the menu, select the external interface, shut down the squeezeplay application to restart - sound is now produced by soundblaster

2nd test (virtually identical):
-Connect joggler to powerbar
-Connect hub to power bar
-Connect hub to joggler
-Connect sound blaster to hub
-Insert the USB stick containing squeeze-OS
-Ensure powerbar is off
-Connect powerbar to mains
-Hit the powerbar on button

After booting, play music from the joggler for the first time (it plays audio through the joggler speakers)
Go into the menu, select the external interface, shut down the joggler to restart - sound is now produced by soundblaster

Conclusion:
-The DAC in the sound blaster is compatible with the joggler, at least with 2 OS configurations, without any modification
-It's volume control does not function in this setup (drivers issue presumably), nor does the mute function or the CMSS
-While booting, the sound blaster generates 2 consecutive popping sounds, but then is crystal clear (Including no noise whatsoever when music is not playing or when paused)

castalla
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Re: joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by castalla » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:36 pm

I got bluetooth running on Debian using squeezelite to output the audio stream.

Frankly, it's a PITA to set up and use - the main problems were:

a getting bt to pair and trust the speaker

b. getting a reliable way to allow the bt speaker to be shut down and reconnect when switched on again

ChaoticMike
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Re: joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by ChaoticMike » Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:46 pm

Algo wrote: ** Just found this on fleabay: MUSE 24Bit 192Khz Mini USB DAC £43 - (as much as I paid for my Sabre DAC + postage) and saves hacking.
Hi Algo,

I just got me a Joggler and installed Squeezeplay... Massive kudos to Roobarb, I think. I am intrigued by your modification, and am toying with it myself, as the idea of a sub £80 Squeezebox Touch (in effect) sounds too good to miss.

What do you mean in your comment above about 'saves hacking'? It looks to me that apart from the necessary physical changes, you weren't mucking about with the configuration settings and/or code on SqeezePlayer... Or am I just not looking hard enough?!

Cheers,

Mike

ChaoticMike
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Re: joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by ChaoticMike » Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:00 am

D'oh... Answered my own question when reading your 'how-to'! So what you are saying is, if I obtain the Muse DAC and wire it in, I don't need also to tweak the Joggler's software?

Mike

ChaoticMike
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Re: joggler USB Audio out re - Squeezeplay is this possible?

Post by ChaoticMike » Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:01 pm

Here's a real question then, based on the above. Why would the Muse device *not* require the software tweak, but the Sabre device does? Is it anything to do with synchronous/asynchronous modes, because there is an asynchronous version of the Sabre DAC now available?

I don't know much about this stuff, although I probably have enough knowledge to be dangerous!

Mike

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