O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

General discussion relating to the O2 Joggler, from the default O2 setup, to alternative operating systems and applications.
xAPPO
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Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:39 pm

Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by xAPPO »

I'm not quite so enthused with this approach by O2. I understand why they would want to do it but they were really selling a product based on it's functionality and now once you've bought it they're reneging on that.

While most of the apps can be replaced by others if you're technical their target market for the device was the non technical who wanted this canned inbuilt functionality. These people can not , and should not be required to mess around getting back the functionality they thought they already had.

I'm particularly annoyed about the messenging app as there isn't a replacement for that, and even O2 haven't come up with an alternative suggestion in their 'update' notes, instead just skating around that aspect. Plus there were 50 free texts per month as part of your purchase which are now being removed which in any replacement would be unlikley to be free. Messages is also a background application nicely integrated within the dashboard UI. I feel O2 have just thought it's a hassle to retain this, and it costs us some money in terms of admin and maintenance, we won't get any more sales so let's cease it.

Aside from shafting their customers I would think this is also very dubious legally , effectively deliberately removing / breaking something that was advertised functionality at the time of purchase. Sky also did a similar thing with Tivo when they cancelled their 'lifetime subscriptions' but at least they gave you a long period of notice and ran it for a 10 year period.

I believe O2 have a reasonable stance when they give notice to withdraw their apps when they can replace them with others, as long as it is in a way that a non technical user could migrate e.g. by inclusion of pre loaded apps in the update - but when there is no alternative I think they have an obligation, possible even a legal one, to continue to offer that app / functionality... or perhaps offer refunds ;-)

K
dangerousbh
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Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by dangerousbh »

Hi Joggler Forum,

I guess I am one of the first in a rush of new forum members to find out what exactly is going to happen to their joggler in the upcoming weeks?!

I have had my joggler for about a year and a half, during which time it has proved its worth 10 times over and is in daily use as a photo frame and also as a webradio as i tune into the lounge! Apparently this will be an app that is going? :cry:

Back when I first got my joggler I dabbled in a little 'personalising' of it although I didnt really know what I was doing and didnt want to brick the thing so decided to give up on that. Now it looks like I may need to sit down and watch this forum carefully as I may be needing to do just that again?

So on that note, just wanted to introduce myself here and look forward any advice that may help my joggler soldier on!!

Brian
danfoshizzle
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Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by danfoshizzle »

Welcome Brian, take a look around, we are all a friendly bunch so just ask away if you have any questions!
Fullscreen squeezeplay windows, server 2003, foshiz mini v1 and v2, (and a few broken builds) :P so far.....
more to come!!

Jogglers " Obi Wan" according to Pete_c :D
brush52
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:26 am

Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by brush52 »

As with Brian, I too am a new member. Joined as a result of googling "joggler update" and following the links to this forum. I too experimented some time ago booting from a USB stick but eventually went back to the standard rom as it did most of what I wanted.

Should have realised that there was an active community even for "old" technology. Hope everything turns out well after the update and that there is something there to interest the enthusiasts.

Not a "techie" myself but will follow your progress with interest.

Brush52
ordessa
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:25 pm

Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by ordessa »

welcome new visitors....

we are still coming to understand what the O2 refresh will do... so dont be surprised if there is a flurish of activity post refresh!!

meanwhile.... we wait
dangerousbh
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by dangerousbh »

Evening again,
Thanks for the welcome 'danfoshizzle' and 'ordessa'
I have been doing some research and reading into the new update and Im a bit perplexed as to the messaging service - I bought this product with the service of the the text messaging, as it was, and still is a good attribute to the joggler that I use daily. I dont actually send texts from it to devices but rather receive them to it. Does this mean o2 are now discontinuing that alltogether? Will it still receive text messages? Are they actually allowed to do this even??
I am watching still this forum very closely!!
Regards all
Brian
blc
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:19 pm

Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by blc »

xAPPO wrote:I'm not quite so enthused with this approach by O2. I understand why they would want to do it but they were really selling a product based on it's functionality and now once you've bought it they're reneging on that.

While most of the apps can be replaced by others if you're technical their target market for the device was the non technical who wanted this canned inbuilt functionality. These people can not , and should not be required to mess around getting back the functionality they thought they already had.

I'm particularly annoyed about the messenging app as there isn't a replacement for that, and even O2 haven't come up with an alternative suggestion in their 'update' notes, instead just skating around that aspect. Plus there were 50 free texts per month as part of your purchase which are now being removed which in any replacement would be unlikley to be free. Messages is also a background application nicely integrated within the dashboard UI. I feel O2 have just thought it's a hassle to retain this, and it costs us some money in terms of admin and maintenance, we won't get any more sales so let's cease it.

Aside from shafting their customers I would think this is also very dubious legally , effectively deliberately removing / breaking something that was advertised functionality at the time of purchase. Sky also did a similar thing with Tivo when they cancelled their 'lifetime subscriptions' but at least they gave you a long period of notice and ran it for a 10 year period.

I believe O2 have a reasonable stance when they give notice to withdraw their apps when they can replace them with others, as long as it is in a way that a non technical user could migrate e.g. by inclusion of pre loaded apps in the update - but when there is no alternative I think they have an obligation, possible even a legal one, to continue to offer that app / functionality... or perhaps offer refunds ;-)

K
Of course, it is a business decision: no matter what has been achieved with it and what can be done with it, from O2's commercial point of view it was an utter flop. There's no point investing time, effort and money in continuing to support a service which is no longer profitable - that's just business unfortunately and if I was making that decision, I'd probably drop it like a ton of bricks too. It's quite commendable of O2 that they didn't just quietly drop the service altogether and completely screw everyone; they might be washing their hands of it, but at least they seem to be doing it in a way which will leave Joggler owners with a unit that is still perfectly functional. I do hope that they will take it that one step further and open source any code they have modified/built for it, but that's probably not likely to happen.

I'm afraid I don't know too much about the stock OpenPeak software - if that is indeed what they are going to be updating to - but from what I can gather it looks like the only functionality that will be effectively removed is the messaging service. That is a bit of a kick in the nuts, but the chances are that if someone (as in, the general public) wants to send/receive text messages then they've already got a mobile phone for that. It is a very crappy decision for those who actually use the Joggler messaging service and I have no idea what it will be replaced with, if a similar service is even offered. Unfortunately this comes back to the "business decision" issue; it's all well and good being benevolent and offering free text messaging for owners of a product that isn't making any money, but the product isn't making any money. That messaging service has to be supported by O2, which means that they have to invest time, money and effort in maintaining the infrastructure which powers that service. If you're not making any money on it, it's just not a cost effective use of resources.

Whatever "update" comes along, it won't be a technical process to install it; it looks like it'll happen automatically just like any other OTA update (Android users should be used to this).

In my book, O2 dropped the ball when they first released the Joggler. It was advertised as basically a glorified calendar and PIM but, as the work here demonstrates, it is capable of so much more than that. I don't necessarily think it was overpriced - it might be by today's standards, but maybe not at the time - but it's clear that O2 had already considered it a failure when they dropped the price drastically - twice. If they had put in even half of the work that the hackers have, they could have easily marketed this as so much more than just a calendar. People pay big money for fully integrated home media systems and fancy touch-screen controllers to run it all, and the Joggler is more than capable of being that controller - in fact it's overqualified for that job. You're getting a phenomenal little piece of equipment which was basically sold as a calendar - it really boggles the mind!

EDIT: And hello to the fellow noobs! :)
paulcdb
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Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by paulcdb »

blc wrote: In my book, O2 dropped the ball when they first released the Joggler. It was advertised as basically a glorified calendar and PIM but, as the work here demonstrates, it is capable of so much more than that.
I think it was doomed to fail the moment O2 'customised' it with they're own calendar, etc!

lets just look at the calendar...

The calendar is fine if you only ever make appointments on the joggler but how often has anyone entered appointments on it? I carry my phone with me, not the joggler and so I should be able to add them on my phone calendar and have it sync to the joggler!

Sure, I can text them to O2 calendar but how much of a hassle is that? Even then it doesn't sync to my phone and so I have to rely on SMS to remind me. If O2 had done a better job with just this one feature I would've bought a second, maybe even a third because i'm terrible for forgetting appointments!

Hopefully with the update tomorrow it'll improve that function massively and from there it can only get better now and will be waiting to try it out. Although first thing that will be nice to fix would be a more useful screensaver! :)
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dwl99
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Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by dwl99 »

Use google calendar instead!
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roobarb!
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Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by roobarb! »

paulcdb wrote:Hopefully with the update tomorrow it'll improve that function massively and from there it can only get better now and will be waiting to try it out. Although first thing that will be nice to fix would be a more useful screensaver! :)
Update's not for another month yet! :)
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paulcdb
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Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by paulcdb »

dwl99 wrote:Use google calendar instead!
Have you used google calendar on the joggler? Unless its been improved massively since I used it, if i remember it was just a wrapper for the website and didn't offer reminders or anything useful. I don't think you could even add an event if you needed to and so pretty useless!
roobarb! wrote:Update's not for another month yet! :)
Oops, I was actually making an appointment when I was posting it and wasn't paying attention to the month and just remember seeing it was the 29th o\

Thanks for reminding me, lol
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dwl99
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Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by dwl99 »

paulcdb wrote:Have you used google calendar on the joggler? Unless its been improved massively since I used it, if i remember it was just a wrapper for the website and didn't offer reminders or anything useful. I don't think you could even add an event if you needed to and so pretty useless
Fair point. Have you considered Android on the Joggler? http://www.jogglerwiki.com/forum/viewto ... ?f=2&t=318 - there are very vew things it cannot do that the native OS does and many more things besides. And it's very finger-friendly.
paulcdb
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Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by paulcdb »

dwl99 wrote: Fair point. Have you considered Android on the Joggler? http://www.jogglerwiki.com/forum/viewto ... ?f=2&t=318 - there are very vew things it cannot do that the native OS does and many more things besides. And it's very finger-friendly.
Yeah, I remember on the old site there was some development going into android but I just haven't followed things after it packed up so I really need to find some time to sit down and look into it.

I really just want some decent calendar functionality so I don't miss appointments. Screen/screensaver that displayed time, date and next few appointments would be perfect with whatever reminder time you set when creating it. Anything else is a bonus!
xAPPO
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Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by xAPPO »

blc wrote: Of course, it is a business decision: no matter what has been achieved with it and what can be done with it, from O2's commercial point of view it was an utter flop. There's no point investing time, effort and money in continuing to support a service which is no longer profitable - that's just business unfortunately and if I was making that decision, I'd probably drop it like a ton of bricks too. It's quite commendable of O2 that they didn't just quietly drop the service altogether and completely screw everyone; they might be washing their hands of it, but at least they seem to be doing it in a way which will leave Joggler owners with a unit that is still perfectly functional.
My point though is that O2 advertised and took money , some at full price for units that offered a SMS send and receive facility - with 50 free texts per month included although the free allowance is not my issue - it's the messaging functionality which can't be replaced . Some people made a purchase decision based on this and these people now do not have that facility because of a deliberate cessation at short notice of the service by O2. O2 have taken money on that basis and therefore shouldn't be allowed to just cease the service. That IMHO has got to be questionable from a legal perspective.

If I was for example a company offering a non time limited emergency callout when your car broke down and I took everyones money and then said - hmmm - now I have the money it seems having all our crew on the road with the fleet cost doesn't make ongoing financial sense so I'll just stop them - then that would be I'm sure legally wrong. It's not that the company has financial difficulties it's just that one business aspect hasn't panned out the way they forecast and they have chosen to abandon some customers who purchased for this specific function. It is I'm sure not a significant cost to retain this functionality ongoingly - until an alternative is available. Providing the necessary API information to hook into the Joggler OS would be a good first step.

I suppose you could argue there's only one year warranty and that has expired but to deliberately break something after a year must be something legally you can't do. Obviously if a smaller company had done this and gone out of business that's a different scenario altogether.

I use the SMS functioanlity to send messages to the Joggler that trigger things in my home via some home automation control software - turn the heating on , record a TV program etc.... There are of course other solutions possible. This uses a 3rd party app and I'm very grateful that O2 are not totally abandoning / closing the units - although that would create an outcry. I'm going to assume , perhaps naively, that they'll leave Telnet etc enabled and third party apps in place with this update

There are other people just using SMS with standard inbuilt functionality - like a previous poster ... perhaps to send a message to your spouse when you leave work saying you're on your way home and to pop the meal on - or for your kids to say they coming back from school. . Not everyone has a mobile phone (my spouse doesn't) and the screen presentation of SMS via the Joggler is very appropriate say in a kitchen, as a device that is noticed on your return , unlike a phone. This was one of the features of the Joggler that did assist people with technophobia and could well have been the purchase decision.
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offbeatdave
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Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by offbeatdave »

offbeatdave wrote:The Radio app pulls feeds and logos from an o2 depository stored by The Lounge. In theory I guess that just altering the feeds in the jogContent files to working alternatives would keep this running. I can't imagine it relies on communication with any o2 server during it's operation.
I now have the Radio App station icons stored locally and alternative Lounge feeds added to a PnP III work in progress ready for the big switchover! Oh, and a copy of the app itself. It'll be a pain if this stops working altogether though!
"EVERY DAY I'M JOGGLERING!"
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Tinkering with Jogglers since Feb '10 thanks to PMJ, Jogtools, PnP & sqpOS;
Gave something back Feb '12 to Apr '14 with PnP Mk II & PnP III;
Finally 'completed' PnP III Apr '15!
ordessa
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Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by ordessa »

Happy to BETA test PNPIII anytime!

- re: the O2 update - does this mean the Joggler can no longer RECEIVE a text message - even if the free send has gone???
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roobarb!
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Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by roobarb! »

ordessa wrote:re: the O2 update - does this mean the Joggler can no longer RECEIVE a text message - even if the free send has gone???
The update will completely remove O2's Messaging app, so yes. No sending or receiving of text messages any more.
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ordessa
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Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by ordessa »

bizarre really as there much be a sim inside that box with an associated number...

such a shame...I'd be happy to loose the "outgoing if they let us keep the incoming
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BuZz
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Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by BuZz »

no sim - uses mac address afair and a web service or so.

you could replace it with some other sms service though.
ordessa
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Re: O2: Updating O2 Joggler on 30th April

Post by ordessa »

ah..cheers Buzz.. I wondered how that worked!
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