Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

[hawsey]

Nice work Mickchip , will this be on a core bios Joggler ?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[jogglerhase]

There are two versions of the backlighting program. I have attached most recent one.
I use 15 of the tabletop Jogglers as automation touchscreens which are controlled by the automation mothership using nircmd stuff.

Backlight.zip

Thank you, pete.
It does work on Win10 - thats nice.

However - I can not get the Seabios/Win10 combo stable.
It runs stable, but after some reboots, it does not start anymore. Consistently

So, I am thinking that I should stay with the XP Version (unless others report Win10 beeing stable through reboots and its again something w/ my setup....)

For XP, on the other hand, I would like to get that running on seabios, since that boots so quickly.
However, I don't know where to start..... I read the wiki on building it from scratch, but I have no idea on how to get touch and all working.


Does anybody have an idea on what needs to be changed on mevis / mickchips XP build so it runs via coreboot?
(Its not running as is - I tried that....)

All the best,
Heiner

P.S: Pete - I read in some sidecomment in one of the threads here that you have a Triumph Spitfire - I have one as well.
Great little cars - much easier to work on than on this software stuff....


P.P.S. Last resort is to load again the std. boot rom - from which I made a backup.
However: How can I get some minimalistic linux on the (seabiosed) machine to be able to reprogram the ROM???

[jogglerhase]

I think it must be something at your end, I have now tested it on five EFI jogglers and then deleted the EFI partition, changed the joggler specific files to original and tested on two coreboot / seabios jogglers. All of them work OK.

Hi Mickchip; reading through the thread, I found the above quote from you.
Does that mean that you are able to change some things to get your XP Igo build running via seabios?

If so: How fast is the boot performance?
And: What are the files which need to be changed back to the originals to run via seabios?

[mickchip]

Here's how to make mev_nav run on Coreboot/Seabios

Put the stick in your PC and load Minitool partition wizard.

Delete the EFI partition on the USB stick.

Assign a drive letter to the NTFS partition ( so you can read it in your PC )

On the root of the NTFS partition rename ntldr to ntldr.efi & NTDETECT.COM to NTDETECT.COM.efi.

Rename the copies to ntldr & NTDETECT.COM

Do the same with boot.ini, rename boot.ini to boot.ini.efi & then rename "copy of boot.ini" to "boot.ini"

Finally open /windows/system32/drivers and rename "vga.sys" to "vga.sys.efi" then rename "vga.sys copy" to "vga.sys"

Should now work on Seabios joggler & it does boot much quicker.

[mickchip]

Hawsey
Yes this is on seabios, can't get Win10 to run on the jogglers EFI.

[jogglerhase]

Here's how to make mev_nav run on Coreboot/Seabios

Put the stick in your PC and load Minitool partition wizard.
Delete the EFI partition on the USB stick.
Assign a drive letter to the NTFS partition ( so you can read it in your PC )
On the root of the NTFS partition rename ntldr to ntldr.efi & NTDETECT.COM to NTDETECT.COM.efi.
Rename the copies to ntldr & NTDETECT.COM
Do the same with boot.ini, rename boot.ini to boot.ini.efi & then rename "copy of boot.ini" to "boot.ini"
Finally open /windows/system32/drivers and rename "vga.sys" to "vga.sys.efi" then rename "vga.sys copy" to "vga.sys"
Should now work on Seabios joggler & it does boot much quicker.

Hi Mickchip - thanks for the quick feedback.
I followed all your above noted steps (I tried it even twice), but failed (again....). I only get to the WindowsXP Start screen (with some USBOOT Driveguard message on top) and the Progress bar endlessly running. (No further action on the USB drive)
I then tried it in save mode and the system seems to crash at or after loading driver WINDOWS\System32\Drivers\Mup.sys
(If I rename Mup.sys, it crasches at teh driver listed bever Mup.sys (1394BUS.sys) so I belief it is something after Mup.sys, which makes it crash....)


What could be wrong? Any ideas welcome - I am at a dead end.


Heiner

Heiner

[hawsey]

I tried this too but to no avail

A pre built image of XP for Coreboot / SeaBios would be great , pretty please .

I too find W10 a bit unstable , in general but especially on the Joggler if it gets a power fail it just won't boot again , that's why I gave up in my work van as I'm stopping and starting all day .
XP seems more stable .
Gary

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[jogglerhase]

Yes - a prebuild image would be really great, if possible....
As I said - I am out of ideas.

Also, on a side-note: Did anybody try to have the Joggler running in the car while starting it?
In my setup it reboots when I start the car, problably due to voltage fluctuations.
I added already a ferrite core in the power path and I want to add some large capacitor (i.e. 0.47F) in the 5 Volt path, but wanted to hear, if there is already some experience out here.

[mickchip]

Well, don't know what has happened now but I had Win10 running on my Open Frame 2, I shut it down last night come to start it this morning
and all I get is this. Don't even sea the shark.
It would be one where you cannot change the chip.

[hawsey]

Ohh no ....hope you sort it

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[jogglerhase]

Oh sh...
I did not even know that there are jogglers out there where the bios chip is soldered....
I cross fingers for you!!

[pete]

Yes; the big ones with the speakers in the front have the soldered on EFI boot chip.

If you can maybe get a partial Linux USB boot you may be able to write the EFI boot ROM back.

I have one that I think is a Joggler prototype. It has a bunch of stuff remove on the motherboard. It is marked up with Joggler in red marker on the motherboard and the EFI chip is using a socket.

[jogglerhase]

I repeat myself, but thank you to all the active people in this thread - especially mickchip providing img's & troubleshooting help.

But..... I still can not get XP via Coreboot to start properly.
And I am desperately trying, because it starts SO MUCH FASTER then via the std. boot system - when I get it to run....

Here is the odd behavior I see on my system:
(Joggler Version 1 w/ coreboot v0.6 & seaBIOS v1.7.8 and Mevi XP w/ Nav image (Mickchip)

After I write the Image to a USB stick (I tried different ones...) and I try to boot the system.
It stops / crashes after the message "USBoot 2.11 Driveguard..." (i.e. I don't see the next message "USBoot 2.11 Arcguard...." on the Windows screen.

Only following the sequence listed below brings the system to start (it took me all night to find that out..... wife is not happy....):

1. 1st Boot crashes – see above
2. Power System off & Switch OS USB stick to a different USB port of the 4 port HUB. (I tried w/o Hub, and using internal USB port for keyboard or stick - same reults. Its not the HUB...)
3. Start Windows in Save-Mode.
System runs until message „…loading … Drivers/Mup.sys", then stops / crashes.
4. Power System off & Switch OS USB stick to a different USB port of a 4 port HUB.
5. Start Windows in std. Mode.
System starts ( i.e. shows both Messages „USBoot 2.11 Driveguard…“ AND THEN „USBoot 2.11 Arcguard…“ and runs really stable.
(I can also restart or shut down and even briefly disconnect from power. System starts and runs stable)

But: If I disconnect it from Power longer (i.e. 5 Mins), or pull the USB drive, the system fails to boot again.
Only the above steps bring it back to starting again.

As I want to run the device in the car, I need to disconnect it from the power sometimes - and the above procedure is a nogo for the car (i.e. keyboard needed for selecting etc.)

Has anybode ideas what the issue could be?
Any debugging ideas?
Any other XP for Joggler image (i.e. shrunk down and w/ touch support) available, which I could try?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Have a good weekend.

[hawsey]

I'll try the XP that Mick gave us tonight and see if I get the same as you .

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[pete]

@Jogglerhase

There are different ways to boot XP,

1 - EFI stock bios uses
- modified XP boot USB stick with an EFI boot partition to XP using a modified USBoot OS.

2 - seabios bios uses
- is an old '86 type of boot which only works if you remove the EFI boot partition and use a conventional USB configuration for a USB stick.
or
- using the ZIF clip inside of the Joggler to an IDE style SSD drive (which is what I do).

Just relating to Wintel; fastest boot and running of the OS is via a ZIF SSD drive which is what I use for all of my Jogglers these days.

After I write the Image to a USB stick (I tried different ones...) and I try to boot the system.
It stops / crashes after the message "USBoot 2.11 Driveguard..." (i.e. I don't see the next message "USBoot 2.11 Arcguard...." on the Windows screen.

Here you have to edit the USB stick such that it doesn't have an EFI boot partition, rather you have to change it to a conventional NTFS boot modded to use USBoot as documented on their web site.

So then

1 - using GParted, remove the EFI boot partition on the USB stick
2 - swap the new EFI boot files for the regular NTFS boot files on the stick. They are all there.

Thinking Mike has provided both an EFI modded USB boot image (very customized) and a Seabios modded USB boot image. The only difference here is relating to using either EFI or Seabios. The USB boot pieces are the same for both. Only differences are a couple files and not having an EFI boot sector on the USB stick.

Over the years my best booting USB sticks were SSD sticks (bigger than a regular USB stick and writes and reads were much faster). I purchased a small collection of these and still use them today. These draw so much power that I have issues booting them on a powerless hub such that they really only work plugged inside or using the outside port. For powered hubs here use Digi 7 port USB powered hubs which sort of work but still can hang on me. None the less best is still a direct ZIF SSD drive.

For the automobile I would recommend hardware modifying the Joggler O2 or instead using an Openpeak device.

I know of many Joggler uses today just using the old Mevi XP boot for Automation stuff. These remain on mostly and never reboot. I would think after a bit of time constant rebooting will trash out a conventional USB stick. My very first Jogglers; left on 24/7 with an SSD USB boot disk worked fine.

The Openpeak device has a ZIF clip already soldered to the motherboard, DECT, Zigbee and a big heavy metal heatsink. The only way to tell the difference between the O2 Joggler and the Openpeak device is the logo impression on the device and the tag on the back (well and the inside).

As Hawsey mentions above today here too will test mickchip's seabios boot XP image on a conventional 8 Gb USB stick that I have sitting around.

Doing this using my Linux Ubuntu booting laptop with GParted and image writer.

[jogglerhase]

Thank you pete for your feedback.
Unfortunately, I tried (with Mickchips help) already most of what you stated (-> I tried everything you listed and which is possible w/o hardware mods.) Mickchip provided even an altered image (w/o EFI boot and changed system files) - it provided the same errors on my system as my previous attempts.

I am out of ideas....



P.S. The DOS stick you provided for changing the ROM - which also uses USBoot - works without problems in my system, by the way....

[pete]

OK see an issue here writing mickchip's image using imagewriter to a USB stick. Really not much of an issue though.

Here is my testing base Openpeak (same seabios boot). Note got it to boot with Mickchip's newest seabios image on a USB stick.

1 - base is seabios enabled Joggler with a ZIF SSD boot disk going to embedded XP

First attempt here was connecting an old MS USB keyboard, cheapo mini 4 port USB hub and an old Patriot USB 8Gb stick

1 - wrote the seabios mickchip image to the USB stick in linux. Looked at the image and it shows a boot NTFS partition
2 - plugged in the hub, keyboard and USB stick
3 - hit the F12 key when booting. It did not see the two booting devices.
4 - using linux / gparted removed boot tag and re-enabled boot partition
5 - next boot using F12 saw two boot partitions and I chose the USB stick
6 - Started to boot and went to a system error when almost done. I think this was related to the VGA / video thing.
7 - on third boot it went to the desktop but it is dark so used the brightness applications to make it brighter.
8 - I do have an updated video driver for the XP Joggler which will boot to full brightness
9 - It is working fine now.

Suggestions are to do as I did.

1 - write the image to the USB stick however you write it
2 - rewrite the boot sector on the USB stick
3 - hit the F12 key or by default you should see a boot menu load with only one choice and that being the USB stick.

Note here I used GParted to write a new boot sector without wiping the partition. I am thinking I have done this in windows. That said use minitools partition manager in Windows to rewrite the boot sector on the USB stick.

I am thinking the Intel video chip is identical on the Openpeak than the Joggler.

Will upload the newer Joggler video drivers.

Best way to do this is to use a powered USB hub and if you can find a Kingspec SSD USB stick; use that instead. The SSD sticks are still around for sale. Note that this is a real SSD USB stick and not a USB stick that claims SSD speeds.

Attached are pictures of my set up which is low right now on the WAF as I am using a kitchen counter here to test.

The video drivers are 6Mb compressed such that I will put them on MS One Drive.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Akj-Oin7_x0rg2XzbOCNcBILChvW

Note I would use the GPS to sync the time on the Joggler first.

That said slow down the boot process and doing it in steps.

Change the date on the Joggler via script, then sync the time from the GPS, then load the GPS program. Do a wait on the GPS program until everything has booted. It is very slow to boot via USB stick.

The DOS stick you provided for changing the ROM - which also uses USBoot - works without problems in my system, by the way...

The NIC ROM USB stick image I posted is just a DOS USB stick. It is similar to any USB boot write to bios stick. USBoot was written for booting XP on a USB stick.

BTW not sure how much power draw there is in suspend mode. With a Joggler NIC ROM suspend does work fine. You could configure the Joggler to go to suspend mode and auto boot on starting the car if the power draw is small. All of this though I would recommend connecting (soldering a ZIF clip) to the joggler and booting it via an SSD drive or purchasing an Openpeak device to use for a GPS.

Way back when first playing with CarPC's used a tank battery for the carpc. IE: the car pc ran off of the tank battery which was always charged by the alternator. It would run the car PC for about an hour or so depending on the size of the tank battery. You can go to a smart picoPSU these days which would use an intelligent shut down or suspend and a tank battery.

Here is a schematic for a 12VDC system which you can make a 5VDC system and a picture of the PicoPSU with a charging circuit.

[jogglerhase]

OK see an issue here writing mickchip's image using imagewriter to a USB stick. Really not much of an issue though.
Here is my testing base Openpeak (same seabios boot). Note got it to boot with Mickchip's newest seabios image on a USB stick.
.....

Thank you for your help, pete!
However - still no luck for me - I followed your instructions to the point, but end up with the same old system halt / crash

"First attempt here was connecting an old MS USB keyboard, cheapo mini 4 port USB hub and an old Patriot USB 8Gb stick" --- This is odd - the images do not fit on any of my 8GB sticks - therefor I use a 16GB stick
"1 - wrote the seabios mickchip image to the USB stick in linux. Looked at the image and it shows a boot NTFS partition" --- I did this in Windows using ImageWriter win32diskimager 0.9.5
"2 - plugged in the hub, keyboard and USB stick" --- I did the same
"3 - hit the F12 key when booting. It did not see the two booting devices." --- I did the same - I see my 1 boot device
"4 - using linux / gparted removed boot tag and re-enabled boot partition" --- I did the same
"5 - next boot using F12 saw two boot partitions and I chose the USB stick" --- I did the same - I see my 1 boot device
"6 - Started to boot and went to a system error when almost done. I think this was related to the VGA / video thing." --- I did the same - system hangs early in the boot process as I decribed earlier
"7 - on third boot it went to the desktop but it is dark so used the brightness applications to make it brighter." --- do not come to this point
"8 - I do have an updated video driver for the XP Joggler which will boot to full brightness"
"9 - It is working fine now." --- do not come to this point. AArrgghhh - I feel stupid - why does this not work for me??

I even tried on 2 differernt joggler.....

I think it is time to accept the situation. I will go back to the std. boot and live w/ the longer boot & sgutdown times.
(I do not want to spend additional money on SSD USB drives etc. to get it to run)

I feel a bit frustrated...but thank you again


P.S. I am curious if it will work for hawsay...

[pete]

This is odd - the images do not fit on any of my 8GB sticks - therefor I use a 16GB stick

I am seeing a 4.7Gb partition on the 8Gb stick right now.

When you boot and hit F12 you should see only one #1 USB boot stick. I see two because I have an SSD drive inside of my joggler.

If you do not see the stick when using F12 then the boot partition is messed up. Ideally you want to check the boot by making sure the seabios sees it using F12.

As mentioned I did get it it to boot but right after booting the first time I did get a system error. 2nd boot was fine. This was probably relating to video bios stuff.

The Seabios boot is faster but not by much relating to the EFI booting. It might be just the USB boot stick, hub, keyboard and mouse combination as the Joggler is fussy with the USB ports. When booting it does power on and off the ports which can cause all kinds of problems. Same for EFI boot.

Windows 10 is written such that you can boot via USB stick just fine if you want to try that instead of the EFI XP boot.

[jogglerhase]

This is odd - the images do not fit on any of my 8GB sticks - therefor I use a 16GB stick

I am seeing a 4.7Gb partition on the 8Gb stick right now.
......
Windows 10 is written such that you can boot via USB stick just fine if you want to try that instead of the EFI XP boot.

1) The >8GB issue could have been with an older build from Mickchip not sure - since then I am using a 16GB stick.

2) Going to Windows 10 started this corebios business for me - but I had a whole set of different problems with that build.

Right now, I am back at XP via std. Joggler bios - I should just be happy that that works nicely....

WRT your earlier power statement:
Instead of a separate battery, I am building large caps (2000µF as of now) in the 5 V line and will see, if the Joggler / XP survives with that voltage fluctuations from starting the car without XP crashing...

Thanks again to all.