Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

General discussion relating to the O2 Joggler, from the default O2 setup, to alternative operating systems and applications.
jogglerhase
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by jogglerhase »

pete wrote:The sure bet way might be to install a tank battery which is charged by the car's main battery and then have the Joggler do a shutdown when the car is powered off. That and writing a rom to the nic would work as it will always error out when booting even if you do not use it.
Hi Pete;
I am a native german speaker, so my english language skills are so-so...
So, I don't understand what you mean by: "writing a rom to the nic would work as it will always error out when booting even if you do not use it."
I don' t get it - what do you mean by that? I did use your NIC Rom update (to have a proper mac address) - but how does this affect booting?

2nd question reg. "and then have the Joggler do a shutdown when the car is powered off. " and/or "add a timed shutdown when the main accessory power is off"
-> It would be great to be able to do that - how could that be done - especially the software part to have the joggler shutting down on some sort of "main power-off signal"?

All the best,
Heiner
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pete
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by pete »

So, I don't understand what you mean by: "writing a rom to the nic would work as it will always error out when booting even if you do not use it."
I don' t get it - what do you mean by that? I did use your NIC Rom update (to have a proper mac address) - but how does this affect booting?


The booting / after booting leaving the build with a hardware error on the network interface. The NIC rom update (as you did) provides not only a MAC address but also the configuration of the network card as it is blank.

It would be great to be able to do that - how could that be done - especially the software part to have the joggler shutting down on some sort of "main power-off signal"?

The automotive pico PSU's have the intelligence built in for a timed (you set it) shutdown up to 30 minutes. IE: if you shut off your automobile for just 5 minutes the Joggler keeps running. The crank voltage has no effect on the pico PSU. Using a tank battery the Joggler would primary utilize the secondary battery for running with the primary automotive charging circuit charging the secondary tank battery. There are also pico psu's with a USB connection that triggers a shut down via USB to the computer based on the accessory power switch (IE: you utilize main car battery voltage - direct connect to the PSU and a secondary power accessory connect to the PSU)

Today I do not utilize a tank circuit as it is not needed for most current car pcs that I use. Shut down and startup on the car pcs are only a few seconds for my car pc's. That is totally a bit different with the Joggler. Even in suspend mode / WOL it takes a few seconds to start up the Joggler.
- Pete
O2 Jogglers running EFI Ubuntu / Squeezeplayer
OpenPeak Voip Telephony / Zigbee tabletops hardware modded with Seabios / RTC / Ethernet ROM edits / SSD drives running XPe for automation screens

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jogglerhase
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by jogglerhase »

Thanks for the feedback, Pete.

I try to keep cost at a minimum, so thats why I don't want to use a 'real' carPC powersupply.
(Also, we only need 5V - no regulated 12V)

Anyway - I think I have my setup *finally* working now.
No more glitches seen on Arduino; Joggler boots fine during engine cranking on a cold morning.
It was really the 22.000µF electrolyte Cap, that did the trick! (2.000µF was not enough, higher µF 'GoldCaps' had a too high inner resistance, so couldn't deliver enough juice to the joggler )

See attatchment for my new setup.

Here are the parts:
China regulator (as before): http://www.ebay.de/itm/141814284723?_tr ... EBIDX%3AIT
Diode (so the crankmotor does not suck the cap empty): https://www.conrad.de/de/schottky-barri ... 61029.html
(30V / 8A might be overkill, but the large Cap sucks a lot of Amps while charging - even though only for a few msecs.... Since the diode is cheap - better save than sorry)
22.000µF Cap: https://www.conrad.de/de/elektrolyt-kon ... 46200.html
(Switch from scrap parts)
So, everything under 10€.

I am very happy with this - now, I am REALLY waiting for Mickchip to come back from vacation to learn more about his new build!!! :D
(Also; I saw that running the XPNav via coreboot cuts the boot time from 2 minutes to 1 minute(!), so I am really hoping that I get some version reliably to boot via corebios.....)
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5Vcar_pwr.jpg
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pete
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by pete »

Understood Jogglerhase.

Thank you for providing the schematic / parts list to your power tweaking stuff.

Here also waiting on new navigation stuff from Mickchip as I will probably switch from the automobile built in navigation to Mickchips as it is much nicer.
- Pete
O2 Jogglers running EFI Ubuntu / Squeezeplayer
OpenPeak Voip Telephony / Zigbee tabletops hardware modded with Seabios / RTC / Ethernet ROM edits / SSD drives running XPe for automation screens

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jogglerhase
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by jogglerhase »

... and I can confirm after 3 days excercising the Joggler in the car that the above power setup works without a glitch.

Now let's see when Mickchip comes back, so we all can hopefully continue tinkering soon! :-)
jogglerhase
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by jogglerhase »

jogglerhase wrote:... and I can confirm after 3 days excercising the Joggler in the car that the above power setup works without a glitch.
Now let's see when Mickchip comes back, so we all can hopefully continue tinkering soon! :-)
.... Still no more crank-related crashes - the powersupply is fine now.

However: My OS USB stick died - a 16GB USB3.0 Lexar stick :-(
(The Joggler just froze shortly after boot. After that, the stick is no more recognized both on Win & Linux - HP USB tool can not see stick either....)
I hope its not XP, which wears out the stick so quickly - I guess XP is too old to know about SSD sensitivities?
But I have to admit that I put a lot of strain on that stick with all the power glitches and crashes I had in the past...

Let's see how long the next one lasts....

Other than that - it is awfully quiet on this thread.... everybody well? Mickchip save & sound back from vacation?
All the best to all.
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pete
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by pete »

I do not think that the 16Gb USB3.0 Lexar stick is a true SSD device. Just guessing.

I have some wintel repair utility which will do a low level format of a USB stick. Will look for it. You can do this too with Linux GParted.

Here went to doing USB SSD with Kingspec 8 Gb SSD sticks removed from their shell and installed inside of the Joggler. (first generation testing).

I then also went to using a USB to ZIF SSD card connected to a soldered on USB port on the main motherboard of the Joggler. It was a tight fit and did work.

Soldering a 3rd USB mini USB connector is easy, thinking the USB to ZIF cards now are around $5 USD and a small 8Gb SSD ZIF would probably be around $20 USD.

Joggler motherboard ==> mini USB connector ==> USB to ZIF card (tiny) ==> ZIF SSD drive (16Gb).
USB-ZIF.jpg
USB-ZIF.jpg (5.65 KiB) Viewed 13669 times
zifssd.jpg
zifssd.jpg (6.13 KiB) Viewed 13669 times
Today's Openpeak devices are just using embedded wintel booting from a direct connected ZIF SSD drive.
- Pete
O2 Jogglers running EFI Ubuntu / Squeezeplayer
OpenPeak Voip Telephony / Zigbee tabletops hardware modded with Seabios / RTC / Ethernet ROM edits / SSD drives running XPe for automation screens

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mickchip
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by mickchip »

Hi all
I'm still here, having trouble with the new build.
I can get it to boot sometimes and others it just sticks on the starting windows screen, when I can get it consistent I will let you know.
Booting it from a zif ssd works every time, also booting it on my Samsung Q1 Ultra through USB works every time.
Will keep you posted.
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jogglerhase
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by jogglerhase »

mickchip wrote:Hi all
I'm still here, having trouble with the new build.
I can get it to boot sometimes and others it just sticks on the starting windows screen, when I can get it consistent I will let you know.
Booting it from a zif ssd works every time, also booting it on my Samsung Q1 Ultra through USB works every time.
Will keep you posted.
Great - you are back!
2 Questions:
1) The problems you are seeing - is that running via coreboot or via std. Joggler boot?
2) If running via coreboot - does is stop/hang on the windows start screen showing only the 1st USBoot message? (That is where it stopped for me on the earlier builds)

Also: Let us know, if we can help in any way.
(For example, if you share the virtual machine you generated for this, we / I could try to build it via USBoot as well. Just a thought)

To Pete:
Thanks for your feedback. You are right, the Lexar is definetely not a true SSD - but the solid state sensitivities like cell wear out are the same, I guess? - Or worse, since these sticks probably have no wear leveling mechanisms. And thanks for your offer, but don't bother looking for that repair utility. I tried already gparted - it can not repair it. I think the stick is gone for good.

One additional question to both of you:
You mentioned that you are also using an (internal?) zif ssd. Does that fit inside a closed Joggler? Or is that externally installed?
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hawsey
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by hawsey »

Jogglerhase , if you can be bothered you should be able to get a replacement free of charge for the Lexar ; I've had two replaced no problem (not Lexar ) .
The actual SSD with adapter works the best for me but it's big ha ha .
I think for the Zif they are using it needs a bit soldered on to the board on a standard Joggler :-(
@ Mickchip, I've sent you a PM re the link you sent me .
Cheers


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jogglerhase
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by jogglerhase »

hawsey wrote:Jogglerhase , if you can be bothered you should be able to get a replacement free of charge for the Lexar ; I've had two replaced no problem (not Lexar ) .
The actual SSD with adapter works the best for me but it's big ha ha .
I think for the Zif they are using it needs a bit soldered on to the board on a standard Joggler :-(
@ Mickchip, I've sent you a PM re the link you sent me .
Cheers
Thanks, hawsey - I will try that!
Reg. the ZIF: I understand that it needs soldering a ZIF adapter to the main board.
I would try to do that - if I knew that it all fits inside the joggler. If it doesn't, I do not want to go that path.....
(I would do it to shave off a few secs of booting time... leaving the Joggler open / having the ZIF hanging outside is not worth (to me) to save some booting time.)
Because - other than the boot duration(*) - the XPNav is just GREAT!!

Did I already say Thank you! Mickchip? :-)

(*) Currently I use a 'real' USB SSD - an old one I found on ebay, which was still optimized for fast USB 2.0 performance.
It is much faster than the USB 3.0 Lexar on a USB2.0 Joggler port:
From power up to Igo running is ca 90 secs - compared to Lexar ca. 120 secs. - Both using std. Joggler boot - not Coreboot
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hawsey
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by hawsey »

Heiner ,
Here's the wiki :-)
http://www.jogglerwiki.com/wiki/Adding_a_PATA_port

It looks like it won't fit inside tho :-(

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mickchip
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by mickchip »

My Joggler Satnav project, not finished yet but getting there.
Had to remove one speaker to fit everything in, the SSD is under the board.
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This is my betting shop joggler
This is my betting shop joggler
The SSD 32gb
The SSD 32gb
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jogglerhase
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by jogglerhase »

Holy sh....that is impressive, Mickchip!
Where do you get the long flat cable and thy tiny SSD?
Anyway - very nice!
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mickchip
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by mickchip »

40 pin fpc cables & connectors
Cables
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10Pcs-0-5mm-P ... Swx2dYEuCm
Connectors
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-Pcs-Bottom ... OSwzaJX~lT~

The SSD is from a Viliv X70EX but there are none available on ebay however the ones Pete uses are.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KingSpec-SSD- ... Swm8VUv6V5
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pete
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by pete »

Thank mickchip!

Here using the long zif cable / 16Gb SSD can fit that under the old WLAN card. Using a smaller combo WLAN/Bluetooth card plus the GPS should fit on the left side removing the speaker underneath. There are 1.3" and 1.8" SSD cards. Both fit fine.

The ZIF cables I was using were white and blue on the ends or blue and blue. If it is white it is a bit thinner so you have to tape a piece of scotch tape over it to make it a bit thicker. You are looking for a 15-25cm zif cable with flipped ends.
- Pete
O2 Jogglers running EFI Ubuntu / Squeezeplayer
OpenPeak Voip Telephony / Zigbee tabletops hardware modded with Seabios / RTC / Ethernet ROM edits / SSD drives running XPe for automation screens

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hawsey
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by hawsey »

Nice work :-)


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pete
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by pete »

The Kingspec SSD USB 2.0 drives that I use are very fast RW devices. To get them to fit inside of the Joggler I removed them from their case.

I see the Kingspec SSD USB devices on Amazon here. Note that these are true SSD devices.

https://www.amazon.com/Kingspec-Speed-S ... 0AVJ6?th=1

Early Jogglers running XP / Ubuntu here all used these Kingspec SSD USB sticks. Always worked for me; never failed.

Another thing you can do is wire up another USB port, purchase a ZIF to USB case with a ZIF SSD drive and velcro it to the back of the Joggler. I have done this with the OpenPeak 7's.

Currently here have between 16-20 Jogglers on line running XPe or Ubuntu using the 1.8" ZIF SSD drives inside of the Jogglers. The 1.3" SSD ZIF drives also fit. Note that the ZIF connector on these is in the middle of the SSD such that you can set the SSD between the motherboard and the left part of the case with the ZIF cable going across the motherboard. The Ubuntu booting Jogglers with SSD drives are using the original EFI boot rom. The XPe ones are using the core boot bios.
- Pete
O2 Jogglers running EFI Ubuntu / Squeezeplayer
OpenPeak Voip Telephony / Zigbee tabletops hardware modded with Seabios / RTC / Ethernet ROM edits / SSD drives running XPe for automation screens

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mickchip
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by mickchip »

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hawsey
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Re: Satelite Navigation on the Joggler

Post by hawsey »

Other than the obvious size , could this , would this be any faster than the actual intergal SSD with with cable , I am using ?
Mick , I downloaded the file , what do I need to do to write it to my ssd , I've not seen vhd format before.
Is it Efi boot ?

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