win10 on Joggler

[pete]

Have a read over here Gary.

Windows 10 - Setup and Run on USB Flash Drive

http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/3373 ... drive.html

The PiPo X7 BIOS does allow for USB OS booting. Currently the built in soldered 32Gb MMC is primary and another 32Gb MMC is secondary OS.

Do you have an Openpeak around (with the Openpeak logo rather than O2 logo?)

The Openpeak device uses a flat metal plate over the entire back of the motherboard (runs much cooler) and has another antenna in it for Zigbee, a real microphone, DECT and Zigbee stuff. It appears to be a multiple purpose telephony, energy and internet kiosk. Well that and the EFI boot chip is socketed which is a good thing.

BTW on my earlier Joggler testing I also tried a wired in USB to SSD plus SSD card inside of the O2 Joggler that did work with the USB tweaked XP; but not as well as the ZIF PATA connected SSD.

The XPe image I use is less than 3Gb today and I single purpose the Openpeak devices and they run just fine. (not off of USB though).

[hawsey]

Looks cool Pete , I like looked at that tutorial and it like looks like it will take a bit of time to sort that , I'm not sure I'm up to the job ha ha .
The Jogglers efi boot is different to that on a PC or laptop I think ,or does the SeaBios change this ? That said I'm sure someone like Mevi or Danfozizzle could get a bit further than me , the touch screen is responsive enough once the USB stick boots up , it just won't let you install to USB stick.

[pete]

Yup; EFI boot rom was never changed or modded in any way. I did for a time play with rEFI to do a multiple Linux boot thing and it did work if I had mouse connected to the Joggler. It did not work though with the touchscreen and it only worked with Linux based OS's

Basically all we have is what Openpeak utilized relating to EFI boot roms.

For Wintel EFI booting a new one could be created from scratch. (not an easy endeavor though).

One OpenPeak EFI ROM I have actually calls the mothership (don't recall which one) and rebuilds the OS partition.

or does the SeaBios change this ?

The Seabios ROM was really only completed to a point and not really finished. But it had enough to run XP except for the realtek NIC which you can now get to run.

The created USB booting Windows 8.0 image only would survive one reboot if at all. I did get it running OK on a USB connected SSD drive. You may be able to upgrade this one if you can get it running ok.

For whatever reasons using the original SSD / USB sticks that I played with always did work better than a regular USB stick.

BTW - best desktop OS for the Joggler today is BuZz's Ubuntu builds. I have a few running off of the SSD drives and it is really fast.

Best means to play with Windows 10 and Android is to purchase a combo Intel Baytrail dual boot tablet today for around $100 USD.

[hawsey]

Yup; EFI boot rom was never changed or modded in any way. I did for a time play with rEFI to do a multiple Linux boot thing and it did work if I had mouse connected to the Joggler. It did not work though with the touchscreen and it only worked with Linux based OS's

Basically all we have is what Openpeak utilized relating to EFI boot roms.

For Wintel EFI booting a new one could be created from scratch. (not an easy endeavor though).

One OpenPeak EFI ROM I have actually calls the mothership (don't recall which one) and rebuilds the OS partition.

or does the SeaBios change this ?

The Seabios ROM was really only completed to a point and not really finished. But it had enough to run XP except for the realtek NIC which you can now get to run.

The created USB booting Windows 8.0 image only would survive one reboot if at all. I did get it running OK on a USB connected SSD drive. You may be able to upgrade this one if you can get it running ok.

For whatever reasons using the original SSD / USB sticks that I played with always did work better than a regular USB stick.

BTW - best desktop OS for the Joggler today is BuZz's Ubuntu builds. I have a few running off of the SSD drives and it is really fast.

Best means to play with Windows 10 and Android is to purchase a combo Intel Baytrail dual boot tablet today for around $100 USD.

Thanks Pete , yes no denying that BuZz's builds are the business I wouldn't a look past them for actually doing stuff on a Joggler but you can't beat messing about trying to get something to work .
Yep , I think I might just get one of those tablets that dual boot , I like the sound of them .

[pete]

Installed Windows 10 on the Joggler tonight using the 16Gb SSD drive. Works.

It is a bit faster than Windows 8.1.

[hawsey]

Great stuff Pete , could you PM a link to what build you used , does it boot like a PC or is it EFi boot ?
I gave up as it was asking for a key which I didn't have.

[pete]

does it boot like a PC or is it EFi boot

PC

The base install steps are:

1 - Seabios installation
2 - DVD USB ROM ISO
3 - pending some cleansing here using:
4 - Windows 10 lite.

Painstakingly slow installation. Best to walk away. Tablet mode works fine

I PM'd you.

BTW trying something new here. Found a 1/2 sized mSATA card to ZIF 40 Pin PATA device. It is around the same size as the 1.8" SSD PATA ZIF card and I think it will fit fine right over the wireless USB dongle on the left side there. Testing it out with a 32Gb 1/2 sized mSATA card. The device also has the little screw holes for the full sized mSATA cards. These are easier to get now than the 40 pin ZIF SSD cards. I have had issues now with the flipped 15cm blue ended ZIF cables. All I can find are the blue and white 15cm 40 pin ZIF cables. I am using a piece of scotch tape over the white side of it to make the end thicker trimming it accordingly for a snug fit in the ZIF clip.

[hawsey]

Cheers Pete , got the SeaBiosed Joggler and your PM , cheers ,the install always seemed to go smooth but if I remember right it wouldn't let me select a drive to install it to at the crucial point .
When it got to the bit asking where to install , how did it go for you ? , did you have the DVD USB Rom iso on a stick or an actual DVD drive ?
I seem to remember I made a bootable usb but as I say it failed at the crucial bit

[pete]

how did it go for you ? , did you have the DVD USB Rom iso on a stick or an actual DVD drive ?
I seem to remember I made a bootable usb but as I say it failed at the crucial bit

I burned a RW ISO DVD disk and used a USB CD/DVD portable device. I remember trying a USB stick ISO but it's a PITA because it always powers off and on the USB ports. Somehow the USB DVD ROM as it is externally powered doesn't do this.

It is the media though to write the OS on. The media is a ZIF connected PATA SSD drive. That is the magic. It will not recognize a USB connected anything to write the OS on. Remember the earlier W7, W8, W8.1 builds always worked fine from the PATA ZIF SSD. I could get it to boot tweaking the USB stick but it wouldn't survive multiple boots and eventually would crash and burn.

That might be the Seabios stuff.

I can RW and boot an MMC media (external micro SD) on the Atom Baytrail quad core PipoX7 just fine either in Windows 10 32 bit mode or Ubuntu 14.04 in 64bit mode. It does fine with the soldered on 2Gb RAM on the device.

That said the Windows 10 32 bit build with 512Mb of RAM does OK. Metro works as it really didn't work on W81 well.

Thinner as in XP embedded or W7 embedded does better.

VNC works better on W10 than W7 or W8 and will post some screen shots. It did immediately connect to the MS mothership in the cloud, updated itself and all of that metro stuff. I also installed my sapi voice fonts on it (Neo Speech), screen savers et al.

Quickie steps (well not so quickie) to make your Windows 10 build lite and quicker. I am starting from scratch again here.

1 - download Windows 10 Lite
2 - extract, rename to Win10Lite (easier to call later)
3 - put Win10Lite folder in root of Windows 10 ISO using UltraISO
Alternative method of adding a directory to an existing ISO ==>
install 7Zip - extract contents of original ISO and add Win10Lite folder to extracted contents
install imgburn - create new ISO from directory created above
4 - burn to DVD
5 - install Windows 10 as normal
6 - wait until Setup requires input , then press Shift + F10. (near the end of installation, when it says "time for activation" and asks for a Product Key, User Account name, etc.)
7 - a command prompt will appear
8 - enter: cd x:\Win10Lite (replace x with your DVD drive letter)
9 - enter: start rmApps.cmd
10 - it will ask which features you'd like to remove (i recommend skipping Association tweaks)
11 - close CMD window and continue with installation until complete

NOTE: keep Windows Store & Microsoft Edge to prevent problems with Windows Update.
After a few cumulative updates.. i've learned the only 2 applications required for error-free functionality are Windows Store and Microsoft Edge. Everything else can be removed.

Thinned out build some removing most of the Metro Applications

[pete]

Now that I have the compact W10 build working here moved it to another Joggler. I write the Seabios boot bios to a new box and connected the SSD ZIF Pata drive with W10 on it. Odd (from personal experience) that it booted right up and the Gb network port also worked just fine from a cold boot.

This particular build is using a more compact USB WLAN stick instead of the stock USB WLAN stick.

It is very basic now stripped down version of W10 Enterprise. I have it down to 8Gb which is still kind of big.

[hawsey]

Thanks for this Pete , its great that you have taken the time to list the steps required to get this going
Cheers

[pete]

Tried twice more to build a thin W10.

Found out you really have to do this before it connects to the internet. Configuring (thinning) W10 Pro enterprise is different than doing W10 Home.

[pete]

Redid another build of W10 Pro. This time opened the command line prompt in the beginning and ran the Winlite cleansing script continuously while it configured itself.

Thinned out the build to some 5Gb's this way.

All I really want for the touchscreen is the meat of the OS without the fluff right now.

It does run faster this way.

Made it unbootable...starting again.

[hawsey]

Do you know if it is possible to boot W10 off a standard USB port ? I don't think you can do that like you could for XP and W7 , I was just wondering as then an efi boot non seabios build would be next on the list

[pete]

Do you know if it is possible to boot W10 off a standard USB port ?

I don't think you can do that like you could for XP and W7 , I was just wondering as then an efi boot non seabios build would be next on the list

Yes and no.

Have a read here.

http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/3373 ... drive.html

I did create a boot W10 stick and was able to use it to install W10 on the PATA SSD hard drive. That said all of the current releases of W10 will not recognize or see the USB medium as a boot drive. I have never attempted to try this with the original EFI boot rom.

Noticed yesterday that most current release of W10 / winlite scripting creates a build that doesn't start W10. IE: MS did the doo relating to modifying the install such that I cannot remove services prior to final installation pieces. I have gone back now to an earlier build and not wasting my time with this this as I tried many times yesterday.

BTW post install lets you disable most services but doesn't let you remove them. Basically here just trying to keep Edge and Windows store. Thinking this might be an issue relating to removing cortana. It appears that there are many dependencies of the internet to the OS. (very cell phone like and similar to Android).

[pete]

Another thing I just noticed with the most current installable version of Windows 10 is that once you follow the MS prompts connecting wireless and talking the MS cloud; it sort of disconnects you from making changes to your wireless stuff. I mean I can see the drivers but I cannot change to a different access point.

So I started again this time using the Joggler wireless connection. Disabling it and then using the Gb connection which is easier to control / manage.

All of this though makes me want to go back to just using the W7 embedded OS and maybe later on entertain using W10 for my touchscreen stuff. I will though run what I have made and still try to disconnect it from stuff I do not need.

[hawsey]

It will boot off a stick , I found this
http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/3373 ... drive.html
I know this is a long way off an efi boot image but still interesting to know .

[pete]

Good news hawsey.

I am done playing with it on the Joggler / Windows 10. I got it thin for a time. Then I noticed the updating after installing the most current version downloaded deletes my changes and software adds turning the Joggler in to a tablet / smartphone / internet terminal.

I would say though play with it and see how it fits. Going back here to using Linux / 7e / Xpe for the time bean and relating to my automation consoles.

Happy New Year to you and your family!!

[hawsey]

Happy New Year Pete too to you and yours

[pete]

Playing some more...and I do not know why....I have already written that I am not going to play with this anymore....

Found out how to remove a bunch of internet services running .....and removed them all....

Upon reboot for whatever reason....W10 repaired itself...using MS internet drivers....first thing I noticed though on a long reboot was that W10 shut off all of the installed drivers except for the internet stuff...(keyboard and mouse stuff bugged me).

A couple of W10 repair reboots and my keyboard / mouse came back along with all of the internet services I removed....

I am guessing I just don't know how to do this yet ....W10 doesn't want to let go....noticed too I cannot modify the mac addresses and it keeps adding more so it appears to be finding ways to do this...here I manage the devices on the network based on mac, network address, name (all three)...wouldn't work changing the IP to a static address so I went to assigning a static IP via the DHCP server on PFSense which sort of works now. I removed Cortana and I think that it stuck...left Edge and also removed the MS Store (think that stuck too?). The more I remove the faster it gets.