SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

General discussion relating to the O2 Joggler, from the default O2 setup, to alternative operating systems and applications.
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jogglerhase
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Re: SqueezePlay OS - Version 4??

Post by jogglerhase » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:49 pm

palindrom wrote:
jogglerhase wrote: Background: I am a bit frustrated that Squeezeplay does not play WMA files natively due to licensing issues.
(OK, LMS can transcode this, but this causes delays which mess up player syncronization)
...
Heiner
Why is transcoding causing any synchronization problems?
I use SOX (transcoding) for Digital Room Correction and/or 5.1 to Dolby Surround Down Mix.
Transcoding is done before the stream is send and synchronized to the player(s).
I can just state the facts:
When I run 2 players synced and 1 player needs to transcode ( a WMA stream) this leads to interruption, pauses, skips, players getting out of sync....
When I sync 2 players which both do not need to transcode none of this happens.

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roobarb!
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Re: SqueezePlay OS - Version 4??

Post by roobarb! » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:53 pm

jogglerhase wrote:Build a Squeezeplay OS, which is not using Squeezeplay at all.
Instead, use:
Jivelite (https://code.google.com/p/jivelite/) essentially a squeezebox control application identical to squeezeplay minus the actual player part
plus
Squeezelite (http://code.google.com/p/squeezelite/; however also installable via apt-get install squeezelite) - essentially better player than squeezeplayer

This would also be better in terms of long time support, as Jivelite and Squeezelite are actively developed, are open source and therefor have the possibility to support newer file formats aso....

What do you think?
*Sucks air in through teeth...* ;)

It's certainly a possibility. Who knows, long term, it may even be the preferred route. But do I want to do it? Hmm.

Frankly, WMA is not a format that interests me. I actively avoid it, both personally and professionally. And LMS is perfectly capable of transcoding it, which means I can continue to avoid it! But that's just me.

The possibility of going the squeezelite / jivelite route in the future is something that might happen, but while the current setup works, I'm not in a hurry to pursue it. That's not to say that I won't find myself messing around with it at some point, but no breath-holding should be going on.

In short, maybe. One day. Possibly. 8-)
birdslikewires.net - home of the Reflash System, SqueezePlay (OS) and various tools for the Joggler!

jogglerhase
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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by jogglerhase » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:22 pm

Thanks for the feedback - so there is hope - maybe longterm....
:-)

And I know - I don't like WMA as well.
But I do like NPR and the NPR plugin - and that is relying on WMA streams. Really a pitty.

And transcoding is really annoying in this specific case (i.e. NPR morning edition):
The NPR stream is a combination of short streams (i.e. each story 1 stream). So, after each story, the system pauses to buffer the next short stream....
So, there are longer pauses between the topics and most times the player syncing gets out of whack.

I wish I had the knowledge to do it on my own / to fix the bad interaction between Squeezeplayer and Squeezelite.....

Anyway - thanks for this OS - it is still great and my entire music system in the house relies on it!
Heiner

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palindrom
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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by palindrom » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:27 pm

castalla wrote: So what do you mean by 'essential for applets? It's just a picture. no?
The "picture" is just an example. If you do not miss this feature, you obviously do not need it (but it won't harm you anyway).
To parse the LMS model is one method for LMS applets to evaluate some capacities of the client the applet is communicating to/running on (Local and Server-side applets).

Its essential for a screen saver application to know the screen resolution (Weather Saver).
But currently there is no official way to know if the SqueezePlay platform is a OF1/OF2/Windows/Other LINUX/...
Last edited by palindrom on Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

castalla
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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by castalla » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:50 pm

palindrom wrote:
castalla wrote: So what do you mean by 'essential for applets? It's just a picture. no?
The "picture" is just an example. If you do not miss this feature, you obviously do not need it (But it won't harm you anyway).
Sorry, but you stlll haven't explained 'essential'. If it's not essential, then you shouldn't imply it is!

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palindrom
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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by palindrom » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:02 pm

castalla wrote:
palindrom wrote:
castalla wrote: So what do you mean by 'essential for applets? It's just a picture. no?
The "picture" is just an example. If you do not miss this feature, you obviously do not need it (But it won't harm you anyway).
Sorry, but you stlll haven't explained 'essential'. If it's not essential, then you shouldn't imply it is!

That's why I have written the Applet.
YOU do not need to use it.
You do not need to change the Timezone...
You do not need to fake the MAC address..
You do not need to change the LMS language..

For me its essential to have proper settings where others just do not care.

I just shared this with the community. I do not need this change, because I have solved the problem already.

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palindrom
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Re: SqueezePlay OS - Version 4??

Post by palindrom » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:18 pm

jogglerhase wrote:
palindrom wrote:
jogglerhase wrote: Background: I am a bit frustrated that Squeezeplay does not play WMA files natively due to licensing issues.
(OK, LMS can transcode this, but this causes delays which mess up player syncronization)
...
Heiner
Why is transcoding causing any synchronization problems?
I use SOX (transcoding) for Digital Room Correction and/or 5.1 to Dolby Surround Down Mix.
Transcoding is done before the stream is send and synchronized to the player(s).
I can just state the facts:
When I run 2 players synced and 1 player needs to transcode ( a WMA stream) this leads to interruption, pauses, skips, players getting out of sync....
When I sync 2 players which both do not need to transcode none of this happens.
Just a suggestion (Which might not work for WMA).
How is your MP3 Streaming Methode (LMS Player/Audio/Settings)?
Did you try Proxied Streaming?
If you have Direct Streaming try to change it (for all players) to Proxy Streaming.

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palindrom
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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by palindrom » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:50 pm

roobarb! wrote: To be honest, I've been considering making the mysqueezebox.com option vanish from SqueezePlay altogether; it's never really worked and the only way to hook up to it even vaguely reliably is to use LMS. It's still a bit chicken-and-egg with the first setup if you don't already have LMS installed somewhere, though.
I would vote for it.
wouldn't it be enough to fake SetupWelcome.lua

Code: Select all

settings = {setupDone=true,}
you can change anything you want without the Welcome Wizzard...

castalla
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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by castalla » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:31 pm

If anything, I'd suggest the default squeezeplay name be Jogglerplay. I have a variety of squeezeplay setups (eg. a windows one, at the moment) and it's always better to assign a unique name otherwise it can get very confusing.

jogglerhase
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Re: SqueezePlay OS - Version 4??

Post by jogglerhase » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:06 am

palindrom wrote:
jogglerhase wrote: Background: I am a bit frustrated that Squeezeplay does not play WMA files natively due to licensing issues.
(OK, LMS can transcode this, but this causes delays which mess up player syncronization)...
.....
Just a suggestion (Which might not work for WMA).
How is your MP3 Streaming Methode (LMS Player/Audio/Settings)?
Did you try Proxied Streaming?
If you have Direct Streaming try to change it (for all players) to Proxy Streaming.
Great! Thanks, palindrom - that makes it much better. Still quite some delay in the beginning, but no pauses between 'sub' streams - also the player sync like a charm.
(Note: WMA native still does not work, but as I force transcoding to MP3, your suggestion works nicely).

Thanks again. Cheers, Heiner

P.S. I still would like to get squeezelite w/ native WMA working, but getting there is like peeling the onion...

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palindrom
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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by palindrom » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:57 am

castalla wrote:If anything, I'd suggest the default squeezeplay name be Jogglerplay. I have a variety of squeezeplay setups (eg. a windows one, at the moment) and it's always better to assign a unique name otherwise it can get very confusing.
I totally agree "it's always better to assign a unique name".
Just keep in mind that there are 3* identifier (Name/Model/Type) for a Device which are generally called "Name" within discussions.
* 5 identifier if you count the IP address and the MAC address as well

See my Screenshot.

Code: Select all

Name:  DachTest
Model: SqueezePlay
Type:  OpenFrame1
Image

Change the Name to your liking.
I would not change the Model, because it's (still) a SqueezePlay implementation.
But I recommend changing the Type according to the HW Platform.
(Currently the default type for SqueezePlay is SqueezePlay)

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johnnygal
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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by johnnygal » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:05 am

castalla wrote:Option 2

But, I've never used anything but wifi, and still found foreign' macs in mysb.com account .....
Snap!.

Option 2 for me too please.

I have just upgraded one of my SQ OS v2 jogglers to V3 and I again got a warning when registering at squeezebox that the mac address was already in use by someone else. This squeezeplayer is wifi only also.

Thanks.

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palindrom
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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by palindrom » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:06 pm

johnnygal wrote:
castalla wrote:Option 2

But, I've never used anything but wifi, and still found foreign' macs in mysb.com account .....
Snap!.

Option 2 for me too please.

I have just upgraded one of my SQ OS v2 jogglers to V3 and I again got a warning when registering at squeezebox that the mac address was already in use by someone else. This squeezeplayer is wifi only also.

Thanks.
I am not 100% sure, but I do have the strong feeling, that currently the generic MAC (as eth0 being the primary connection) is used to identify the Joggler although you are only using WiFi.
This probably happens during initialization where the device ID is generated AND stored.
If you are changing the MAC later you need to change those settings too (which is maintained by the Applet and/or sqp_JogglerNetwork.sh script).
Kindly compare the ID of your squeezebox and the device MACs (eth0/Wifi).

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roobarb!
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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by roobarb! » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:58 pm

palindrom wrote:Change the Name to your liking.
I would not change the Model, because it's (still) a SqueezePlay implementation.
But I recommend changing the Type according to the HW Platform.
(Currently the default type for SqueezePlay is SqueezePlay)
I've been having a play with this. It's quite amusing; the variables and labels have obviously become confused at some point. In the settings:

name= gives the 'Player Name', as in, the identifying name the user gives that player.
model= gives the 'Player Type', as reported in the nightly-build versions of LMS. That's the one we'd like to tweak.

Goodness knows what gives 'Player Model', because it's not in the preference files. But that's fine, we want to leave that as 'SqueezePlay' anyway. :)

Ding! Ah, that may well be the ID number... so, ID = model, model = type, name = name. Simple! :lol:
birdslikewires.net - home of the Reflash System, SqueezePlay (OS) and various tools for the Joggler!

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roobarb!
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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by roobarb! » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:14 pm

Just pushed v1.59 of SqueezePlay. Now includes a simplified (as in, there's no UI!) version of palindrom's JogglerUpdateModel applet. Your devices should automatically identify themselves as OpenFrame1 or OpenFrame2 devices.

Ah, are those icons for the OpenFrame devices still around anywhere? They can go into v1.60, if that's okay with you, palindrom. :)
birdslikewires.net - home of the Reflash System, SqueezePlay (OS) and various tools for the Joggler!

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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by roobarb! » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:36 pm

Lovely, I've managed to come up with what appears to be a reasonably robust method of getting a predictable MAC address for the internal card. It should work something like this (wrapped as code, in case you'd like to skip the details!):

Code: Select all

1. We now generate an eth0 MAC from the USB wifi card, if present. Doesn't have to be the original card.

2. The generated eth0 MAC is simply the wlan0 MAC, with the first octet set to ’02’. This sets the locally assigned bit of the MAC, so no card should have it configured, and it tells other devices that the MAC may not strictly be unique. It also means that both interfaces can continue to be used together, if anyone's doing anything weird like that.

3. Where the USB wifi card is not present, we fall back on the original MAC address generation, but again with the local bit set in the first octet.

4. These MAC addresses are stored by udev and reassigned each boot.

5. If you change your USB wifi card, as on any other system, you would need to delete the udev rules to ensure the interfaces are assigned as eth0 and wlan0. This can now be done from the Reset button in the SqueezePlay menu from SqueezePlay for OpenFrame v1.59.

6. Removing or changing your wifi card will not remove the MAC from the eth0.

7. You should reset your network settings if you put in a new wireless card, otherwise it'll be registered as wlan1 and not do much unless you configure it by hand.
Basically, reset your network settings if you change your hardware, otherwise the MAC should stay the same.

I'll try to give this a test over the weekend and roll some new images next week if all goes well.
birdslikewires.net - home of the Reflash System, SqueezePlay (OS) and various tools for the Joggler!

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johnnygal
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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by johnnygal » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:10 pm

Brilliant, thanks.

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palindrom
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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by palindrom » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:04 am

roobarb! wrote:Just pushed v1.59 of SqueezePlay. Now includes a simplified (as in, there's no UI!) version of palindrom's JogglerUpdateModel applet. Your devices should automatically identify themselves as OpenFrame1 or OpenFrame2 devices.

Ah, are those icons for the OpenFrame devices still around anywhere? They can go into v1.60, if that's okay with you, palindrom. :)

I am happy to provide the new icons (improved quality)
OpenFrame1.png
Open Frame 1
openframe1.png
Included in LMS 7.9 nightly build distribution
OpenFrame2.png
Open Frame 2
openframe2.png
Included in LMS 7.9 nightly build distribution
Last edited by palindrom on Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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palindrom
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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by palindrom » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:26 am

roobarb! wrote:Lovely, I've managed to come up with what appears to be a reasonably robust method of getting a predictable MAC address for the internal card. It should work something like this (wrapped as code, in case you'd like to skip the details!):

...

Basically, reset your network settings if you change your hardware, otherwise the MAC should stay the same.

I'll try to give this a test over the weekend and roll some new images next week if all goes well.

Brilliant approach to flag the Wifi MAC address for eth0 as Locally administered.
This will ensure a "permanent" MAC address for the eth0 (even after re-flash) and ensure different MAC addresses for wifi and eth0
(Details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address )

Thank you!
I am looking forward to the update.

Commodore.White
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Re: SqueezePlay OS (Version 3) for OpenFrame

Post by Commodore.White » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:42 am

Hi. Decided to upgrade the hdd to 1tb on my squeezeplayos joggler from 1.09 to v3. It installed it a treat so now I want to reinstate my music and try to stream videos.

I used windows to add a exFAT partition to the hdd and put some music on it just to test. Unfortunately I can't get LMS to see the partition. I did this successfully on a previous version of squeezeplayos but I'm struggling this time. I thought the new squeezeplayos automounted drives. Perhaps the partition type is incorrect so can't be seen.

I know the guide says use gparted to add partitions but I don't have a linux system and my linux knowledge is scant. Regards.

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