Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

General discussion relating to the O2 Joggler, from the default O2 setup, to alternative operating systems and applications.
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berneslai
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 7:22 pm

Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

Post by berneslai »

Hi all,

I need help with my Joggler which has become stuck on the O2 boot screen after a power cut a few nights ago. I've followed plenty of the helpful guides but am stuck and don't know whether this is repairable.

Diagnosis is:
(1) Joggler sticks on O2 boot screen (no openpeak or any other splash screens follow)
(2) When trying to reflash the auto prompts prior to the flash appear to reference "error -22 whilst initialising MMC card"
(3) When the reflash has finished there is one lone error: writing '/dev/mmcblk0/' no space left on device

I've assumed that the MMC part of the Joggler is borked but I can't get the fs0:/fs1: manual typing trick to work - possibly because I don't even know if the keyboard/hub is responding as it should.

Is there any way I can access a prompt without using this trick? e.g. booting into an external OS on USB?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

B.
berneslai
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

Post by berneslai »

I've managed to get Linux Mint to boot from an external USB and the keyboard/hub is working OK. Is there anything I can run from the Terminal Emulator to fix the MMC issue?
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offbeatdave
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Re: Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

Post by offbeatdave »

Which reflash tool are you using?
"EVERY DAY I'M JOGGLERING!"
Jogglering since Dec '09;
Tinkering with Jogglers since Feb '10 thanks to PMJ, Jogtools, PnP & sqpOS;
Gave something back Feb '12 to Apr '14 with PnP Mk II & PnP III;
Finally 'completed' PnP III Apr '15!
roughlychiron
Posts: 38
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Re: Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

Post by roughlychiron »

I had something very similar to a 'bricked' one I bought cheap recently ... it refused to reflash the squeeze play OS several times ... so I reflashed with the latest open peak which was successful, then it reflashed perfectly with SPOS ....
Juggler
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:34 am

Re: Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

Post by Juggler »

Hi berneslai

I presume that you were running the joggler off something on the internal flash (MMC) at the time of the power outage.

I rarely do this, but from what I understand from other members here is that this is pretty resilient to power outages. But from my experience running on external flash drives, power outages can really foobar the flash drive. From what I can remember the internal MMC is a 1GB flash in 4 partitions. The main partitions are either EXT2 or EXT3. EXT is a good file system to use as it copes better in the event of power loss.

OK, when something bad happens to a joggler, in terms of severity, where 1 is the least, this my understanding of what may have happened :

1 - The Internal Flash (MMC) is corrupted in some way
2 - The EFI chip is corrupted in some way
3 - Something else has happened, and this could be a hardware component that has failed.

There could be other things, and if anyone can comment on that, it would be useful.

Given that you can boot mint, I think your internal flash (MMC) is corrupted.

I suggest that you try the reflash tool, but you say you have done that and are getting an error. Persevere with this and try a few times. Post here with the results.

I have read here that the MMC can get into a state where the re-flash tool will not work and you need to write over the internal flash with DD and maybe repartition it. You can do this, as you are able to boot from an external flash and the tools you need should be in Mint or installable to your Mint. I recall that even writing over everything completely, the partition table is recreated from maybe the boot process. And from there you can use the reflash tool to reinstate the internal flash to a good state.

The above is not from experience, just from being a committed reader here. So what I have stated, may not be fact; please be aware.

If you were unable to boot from an external flash drive, then it could be that the EFI chip has become corrupted and to remedy this you would need to pursue an EFI chip flash hot-swap. However, for this you would need a good EFI chip and a bad one to be reflashed. In addition to versatile, nimble and dexterous fingers !

HTH - but I think there are other threads here that have gone into the detail you need, with actual experience.
berneslai
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

Post by berneslai »

offbeatdave wrote:Which reflash tool are you using?
I've used the birdslikewires reflash tool and attempted to install various img + md5 files. I've also tried PnpIII and Ubuntu/Lime using disk imaged USB sticks. All fail on the MMC.

I don't use the Joggler for anything strenuous, essentially just an alarm clock and internet radio/IPlayer. If the MMC is goosed can I load PnP III on USB?
berneslai
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

Post by berneslai »

Juggler wrote:I presume that you were running the joggler off something on the internal flash (MMC) at the time of the power outage.
Hi Juggler,

Thanks for the comprehensive note. I was actually out during the outage and I'd be confident that the Joggler was doing nothing other than showing the PnP III screensaver clock. I returned to find my Joggler stuck on the O2 logo.

I've tried reading other threads but most seem to indicate, as I have a boot logo and can boot from USB, a joggler that is not 'terminal'. However, it seems completely non-responsive to any kind of flashing. I've searched for instructions to repartition using Mint but can't find anything - I'm not a Linux guru so would need some step by step instructions on what to type in the terminal emulator.
Juggler
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:34 am

Re: Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

Post by Juggler »

Hi berneslai

The other threads here will not necessarily be using Linux Mint. It is likely to be some other flavour of Linux, but the tools and the process will be the same.

If you could provide more info on the failure of the reflash tool, that would be helpful. Again, it is very likely that the same problem has been experienced before and there could be a thread here on that.

I seem to remember someone talking about being unable to reflash and then overwriting and maybe recreating the partitions on the internal flash. From there, they could use the reflash tool, and all was fine from there on. This was over a year ago, maybe up to 3 years ago.

Sorry I can't be of more help. I have not been in your situation and I know that this sort of problem hasn't been discussed here for some time, but it has been discussed.

I've got some jogglers to resurrect, but their problems are EFI reflash or worse. And I don't know when I'll be doing this.
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hawsey
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Location: Northumberland

Re: Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

Post by hawsey »

@bereslai try different USB sticks and keep trying , I have one joggler that eventually will re flash and another that will not reflash at all :-(
No PNP III will not boot off a USB stick unfortunately , I am sure there are many that would love it to though .
Joli OS and XBMC or Squeeze play OS are all good possible alternatives for you if all else fails .
Good luck
Happy Joggling
Juggler
Posts: 249
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Re: Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

Post by Juggler »

hawesey's comment rings a bell...

For some activities with the Joggler, as far as I can recall, the Joggler favours certain brands of flash drives and discriminates against others. In other words, some flash drives will work and others, won't. This, I believe, is due to the OpenPeak software and is determined by the USB VID value :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Implementers_Forum
http://www.voti.nl/docs/usb-pid.html
http://www.usb.org/developers/vendor/

and for a list :

http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids

I believe, and I may well be wrong, this only applies when using a USB flash drive on the Joggler when running some OpenPeak software on the internal flash. So, for example, when using the software that came on the Joggler, originally. But it could apply to what flash drive you are using the reflash tool from. It doesn't take much to put the tool on another flash drive, so give it a try. Suggest you try a completely different brand, and if you have a well known branded flash drive, that would be better. I think I have only encountered this problems once, and it was with a poor quality, old, tiny capacity, freebie flash drive I tried to use.

You've got a Linux distro (Mint) to boot off an external flash drive, which is great news.

With this distro, you could, perform the actions of the reflash tool manually. This could be somewhat involved, and could be problematic, but it would/should reveal in detail, what, if any, problems with the flash process exist. This would not be a first choice, but is an option.

If you can get more details about the problem you're having with the reflash tool that would be helpful. roobarb! may be able to comment on the problem; he is the creator of the reflash tool.
berneslai
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

Post by berneslai »

Apologies for the thread resurrection but I was about to throw my non-functional Joggler in a box of components bound for Ebay.

For the last chance saloon, I've just tried the Reflash tool again and attempted to reflash the EFI. No matter what I do, I always get an error on the boot checks of "Starting identifying Openframe devices = [Fail]." (all other checks are OK) and on the reflash system, I get the error of "Unable to determine Openframe type" which stops the reflash from continuing.

Purely reflashing the OS generates the same error that I reported in August - writing '/dev/mmcblk0/' no space left on device

Given that this is probably bust, are there any viable Joggler alternatives these days (not using tablets/phones on a stand).
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BuZz
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Re: Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

Post by BuZz »

I assume those checks were put in by Roobarb! so it might be possible to force flash the EFI by doing it manually - maybe he can detail what it uses for the check ?. However, since you can boot from an external stick there may be nothing wrong with it - why not run a distro off USB ? Your internal flash for the OS may well be permanently dead.
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pete
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Re: Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

Post by pete »

You can try also to boot up via Buzz's Ubuntu on a USB stick and check and maybe repair the soldered in MMC chip (maybe).

Here I do run some stuff only on the MMC chip on a few Jogglers. Mostly though boot to external media for my stuff.

I have not seen any product yet on the market that matches the feature set of the O2 Joggler and is built as well as the O2 Joggler was made.

The device was well ahead of its time; and funny today its still ahead of its time.

Here I have Jogglers all over the house (literally). Online is some 20 plus today.

Drive my wife nuts as there are now 3 Jogglers in the master bedroom plus one in wall touchscreen today.
- Pete
O2 Jogglers running EFI Ubuntu / Squeezeplayer
OpenPeak Voip Telephony / Zigbee tabletops hardware modded with Seabios / RTC / Ethernet ROM edits / SSD drives running XPe for automation screens

Auto mater
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hawsey
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Re: Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

Post by hawsey »

Pete you are a crazy inspiration 20 jogglers , wow :-)
From USB boot you can have everything except PNPIII so squeeze play os , xbmc os, Android , Linux mint , Ubuntu , Joli os , windows XP plus others ;
If you don't like a USB sticking out the side you can build your os and stick it in the internal USB in place of the wireless card :-)
If you can't be bothered with any of the above please consider offering the joggler on this site for spares 8-)
Happy Joggling
Juggler
Posts: 249
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Re: Need help with bricked (?) Joggler

Post by Juggler »

Jogglers that have had their internal flash used for 4/5 years now will be at a high risk of failing. Personally, I think jogglers still have a good life ahead of them; it is just a matter of accepting their weaknesses and working with that.

I think the forum will see more people asking for help with regard to jogglers failing and may well be centred around faults with the internal flash. It would be a good idea to have a sticky with solutions related to this and to update this with whatever is further discovered. PNP3 really showcases and excels the Joggler for what it was roughly originally intended (Apologies if I'm well off the mark here). However, it needs to work off the internal flash. If a version could be made that would work of a USB based flash, that could well appeal and keep people using their Jogglers when internal flash has issues.

I don't know how involved or what equipment would be necessary to replace the internal flash. I understand it is possible and it is likely just a matter of replacing the SMD flash chip. I also understand that it is possible to put a better and larger flash chip in the existing chips place. Maybe a member of the community could offer this service for a reasonable price ? What would be really good is if a chip socket could be soldered in there and then the flash chip could just be inserted and extracted like the EFI chip.

If speed is an issue, I have found that using USB3 flash drives provides much better performance then USB2 flash drives. USB3 flash drives are now available at quite a good price point and are in some very small packages, just like USB2 thumbnail flash drives. Another possibility for small flash drives, is to use a USB3 microSD card reader and put a good microSD flash drive in there. I've seen USB2 microSD card readers that you can barely see when inserted in a USB socket.

Pete, if Jogglers were furry, could this be a picture of you at home ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ST_T ... ibbles.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribble

;-)

It's a shame Joggler's don't breed; I could always do with a few more...
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